Are Any Yet In Their Sins?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

HP: What does it mean to be ‘yet in your sins” and is there a state that one is not ‘yet in their sins?

 

[sag38]

I'd be courious to know what you think first.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Sag38: I'd be courious to know what you think first.

HP: Discussion leads to discovery. Truth is only revealed to the mind as the mind itself lands upon truth for itself. I have found in my own life that it is advantageous to the solidification of truth to my mind to be forced to come up with the answers by active engagement in the process of seeking truth, not simply reading a missive by another concerning their views.

How about this. I will compromise. :saint:

I will say that I do believe that one can be in their sins and that one can not be in their sins. I do not believe one can be and not be in their sins at the same time and in the same sense. Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[billwald]

One of the goofier statements in the Bible. To whom was the statement addressed? Jews or gentiles?

Look at it this way: before Jesus was born, was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses "in their sins?" If so, was God not going to send a messiah to bail them out? If Jesus was not the messiah, is not God still going to send a messiah to bail them out?

If the statement was addressed to to gentiles and if Jesus was not the messiah, then what say the rabbis (then being the best biblical authority) about the status of gentiles? The rabbis say that gentiles who observe the Noahic Covenant have a place in the next life. This is approx what the Jerusalem Council told Paul in Acts.

 

[Amy.G]

Jesus has answered this question.

Joh*8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh*3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh*3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


You will die in your sins (your sins will remain on your account) if you do not believe in Christ.

 

[Pastor Larry]

"Yet in your sins" means unsaved. Yes, there are people who are "yet in their sins" and there are people who are not "yet in their sins."

 

[Amy.G]

One of the goofier statements in the Bible. .

God's word is goofy to you?

I've asked you this before, but you never answered.

Who do you say Jesus is?

 

[trustitl]

The opposite of being in sins is being in Christ. It is also the same as being in Adam or in the flesh.

Read Ephesians and see how many times we are told what is ours:

"in Him, in Christ, in whom, in the beloved" or something similar.

(I did a quick scan and came up with at least 17 times in the first 2 chapters.)

Paul contrasts this to when we were "in trespasses and sins" in Ephesians 2:1.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Larry:"Yet in your sins" means unsaved. Yes, there are people who are "yet in their sins" and there are people who are not "yet in their sins."

HP: 1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Would you agree that it is believers that are being addressed? He is speaking to those having faith, for he says ‘your faith’ does he not? One proper conclusion that can be made is that those saved are ‘not’ in their sins if in fact they are saved, due to the fact Christ is raised.

The question that remains in my mind after listening to many comments on the list is, how can a believer say that their sins do not remain if in fact they sin every day, all remain liars, or if in fact it is impossible to keep from sinning? Is it safe to presume upon the grace of God, hoping that ones sins, while still unrepentant and unchanged, are somehow forgiven? Why cannot it be said of those engaging in a sinning religion that they are still in their sins, equivalent to Christ dying in vain? If not why not? Sin is sin as sin is sin. If one is committing sin are they not ‘in it?’ 1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”
1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[OldRegular]

Ephesians 2:1-8 NASB

1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,
7. in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

We were all at one time dead in our sins and were by nature children of wrath.. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ. That is God saved those he had chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

OldRegular: We were all at one time dead in our sins and were by nature children of wrath.. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ. That is God saved those he had chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

HP: So is one that claims to be a believer and claims to entertain a hope of eternal life on solid ground when he is in the commission of a sin or refuses to acknowledge, repent and forsake such sin? Is the one claiming to be a believer not yet ‘in his sins’ when he is committing sin refusing to repent and to turn from them? Can one serve God and the flesh at the same time?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Would you agree that it is believers that are being addressed?

Yes.

One proper conclusion that can be made is that those saved are ‘not’ in their sins if in fact they are saved, due to the fact Christ is raised.

Yes. But he is arguing for the truth of the resurrection using a hypothetical. He is not saying that they are still in their sins, but if Christ did not raise they are still in their sins.

The question that remains in my mind after listening to many comments on the list is, how can a believer say that their sins do not remain if in fact they sin every day, all remain liars, or if in fact it is impossible to keep from sinning? Is it safe to presume upon the grace of God, hoping that ones sins, while still unrepentant and unchanged, are somehow forgiven? Why cannot it be said of those engaging in a sinning religion that they are still in their sins, equivalent to Christ dying in vain? If not why not? Sin is sin as sin is sin. If one is committing sin are they not ‘in it?’

No, to be "in sins" is to be under condemnation for it. It is not the same thing as sinning.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Larry: No, to be "in sins" is to be under condemnation for it. It is not the same thing as sinning.

HP: Where is the evidence for your conclusion?

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular: We were all at one time dead in our sins and were by nature children of wrath.. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ. That is God saved those he had chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

HP: So is one that claims to be a believer and claims to entertain a hope of eternal life on solid ground when he is in the commission of a sin or refuses to acknowledge, repent and forsake such sin? Is the one claiming to be a believer not yet ‘in his sins’ when he is committing sin refusing to repent and to turn from them? Can one serve God and the flesh at the same time?

Hebrews 10:1-8
1. Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4. Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

OldRegular: be zealous therefore, and repent.

HP: What does it mean to 'repent' ?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

OldRegular,

Hebrews 10:1-8 was written to Christians. Verse 5 tells us, that we do not ignore the chastening from God, that means we are willing to accept being discipline nfrom God by through the Holy Spirit with convict. Or, otherwise, if you don't have any experince of chastening then you are not yet born again in the first place. God does not chasten people, who are not born again yet. Till when a person hears the gospel, believe, repent, and born again to become child of God. THen, God will start to chasten that perosn as person have the Holy Spirit dwells in person with convict.

Also, verse 5 warns us, if we stubborn aganist the chasten or discipline from God, and continued in sinning. Then, God would cut us off(John 15:4-6; Romans 11:19-23: Hebrews 3:7-8; Heb. 3:13-15. Hebrews chapter 3 warns us that, we do not harden against the Holy Spirit, while he is trying to discipline us in our life. Otherwise, if we continue hardned against the Holy Spirit, then we would be cut off same as what God did to Israel in the wilderness with Moses.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

OldRegular,

What if we don't repent of Rev. 3:19, then what would be happen to us? Follow Rev. 3:21 says, the result of failing to overcome in our life at death, then we would not reign with Christ-eternal life according to Rev. 3:5(if anyone fail to overcome them in the lifetime by the time person dies, then, person's name would be removed away from the book of life,cast away into lake of fire).

Clear, throughout whole chapter 3 of Revelation is conditional with warning. That chapter was written for believers, not lost people. You should be aware that.

So, I ask you, what "repent" of Rev. 3:19 means?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DHK]

HP: Discussion leads to discovery. Truth is only revealed to the mind as the mind itself lands upon truth for itself. I have found in my own life that it is advantageous to the solidification of truth to my mind to be forced to come up with the answers by active engagement in the process of seeking truth, not simply reading a missive by another concerning their views.

How about this. I will compromise.

Why would you need to compromise; in fact why would you need to ask the question in the first place. In another thread you made two claims:

1. You said: "The Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that...."
If that be true you have no need to discuss, engage, or seek out the truth in any other process. You already have claimed God's Spirit bears witness with your spirit of the truth. Why would you even need to ask the people on this board if God's Spirit has already revealed it to you.

2. You claimed that: "the Spirit will guide you into all truth." Is it true? If so, you have no need to ask any question. If you really believe that verse as you have claimed it, you are omniscient, and know all truth just as God. Why bother with us mortals? You claim God leads you into all truth. That is really quite amazing. If you know all truth you should be the president of some large university, shouldn't you? Or even in a more prestigious position than even that?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

DHK,

HP does not claim that, she is omniscient, and know everything of the truths as she is act God.

Jesus promises us in John 8:31-32, IF we continued in His commands, therefore, we are His trulu followers/disciples, and we CAN KNOW the truth, and the truth makes us free.Or otherwise, what if we do not obey God, or not keep the commandments, then, no way that we can know things of the truth. Unless, if we allow Holy Spirit guides us all the times, so, we can learning many things from the Hol Spirit, as He is our teacher. If we do not let Holy Spirit guide us, then He would not teaching us of his ways, and shall not able to know the answer of things with truth.

By the way, HP, and I both do not know everything of truths, we are still learning the truth of things till we die or Lord comes.

The only way that we can increase of our knowledge of truths and answers, by allow Holy Spirit to take control our life wih yield.

If suppose, a person would say, "I know everything!" that is pride. God does not accept person's attitude, therefore, He will not going to teach person of things with truths, unless person have to be humble before God first. When a person is truly humble and yield 100% to God completely, so, that same person can get increase of knowledges with truths and answer guide by the Holy Spirit.

We will never satisfy with our knowledge, till we die(physical), then when once we get into heaven, we will be like Christ's.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DHK]

DHK,

HP does not claim that, she is omniscient, and know everything of the truths as she is act God.

HP continually refers to this verse and personalizes it or makes it applicable to his own life.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jesus never promised the average believer that he would lead them into all truth, and it is ludicrous to believe that. Otherwise we would all be omniscient just like God. Do you have all truth, or is God leading you to all truth such that in this lifetime you will come to a point where you have all truth? The obvious answer is no.

The verse was spoken by Jesus to his apostles, and is referring to the inspiration of Scripture. The Holy Spirit would guide the Apostles, as they penned the very words of God into all the truth that God wanted them to write. That is what the verse is referring to.

It is not referring to the omniscience of HP.

Jesus promises us in John 8:31-32, IF we continued in His commands, therefore, we are His trulu followers/disciples, and we CAN KNOW the truth, and the truth makes us free.

Those verses speak of salvation. I trust the Lord has freed you from the bondage of sin, and that "you are free indeed," as it says. Jesus refers to himself as the truth. Knowing Christ is having salvation and being free from sin.

Or otherwise, what if we do not obey God, or not keep the commandments, then, no way that we can know things of the truth.

In the context of John 8, Disobedience of His command was rejection of Christ, as the Pharisees did. They remained in the bondage of sin. Those that trusted him as Saviour were free from the bondage of sin, "free indeed."

Unless, if we allow Holy Spirit guides us all the times, so, we can learning many things from the Hol Spirit, as He is our teacher. If we do not let Holy Spirit guide us, then He would not teaching us of his ways, and shall not able to know the answer of things with truth.

He will guide us, but not into all truth. The only revelation we have is the Word of God. He will not give us any more truth than that which is written in the Bible. But He will help us to understand what is written in the Bible.

By the way, HP, and I both do not know everything of truths, we are still learning the truth of things till we die or Lord comes.

Yes, all of us are.

The only way that we can increase of our knowledge of truths and answers, by allow Holy Spirit to take control our life wih yield.

It is by allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to you as you study God's Word. Knowledge comes through God's Word. That is where the truth is.

If suppose, a person would say, "I know everything!" that is pride. God does not accept person's attitude, therefore, He will not going to teach person of things with truths, unless person have to be humble before God first. When a person is truly humble and yield 100% to God completely, so, that same person can get increase of knowledges with truths and answer guide by the Holy Spirit.

The only "truths" to be found are in the Bible. Humility is what God wants and desires, but truth lies in the Word of God. There is no extra-biblical revelation.