Are Any Yet In Their Sins?

[billwald]

>God's word is goofy to you?

No, God's word is not goofy to me. It is Paul of whom I am suspicious.

Who was Jesus? God's "only begotten Son," as defined by the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed. Also by the Heidelberg Catechism and the new Catholic Catechism.

 

[Pastor Larry]

No, God's word is not goofy to me. It is Paul of whom I am suspicious.

Um, Paul was writing God's word. He was "inspired by God" meaning that what he wrote came from God. So if you are suspicious of Paul, you are also suspicious of God himself.

 

[Amy.G]

Oops.................................

 

[Amy.G]

Who was Jesus? God's "only begotten Son," as defined by the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed. Also by the Heidelberg Catechism and the new Catholic Catechism.

Ok. But who is He to you?

 

[Samuel Owen]

I think the bus just passed by, and no one caught it. Never, never, pull a single verse out of context. This leads to a lot of dispute, and misunderstanding. 1st Corinthians 15:17 is not about who is walking by the Spirit, or Flesh. But is a discussion about the resurrection.

There were some saying the dead do not rise. And Paul said if that be so, then Christ did not rise, and your faith is in vain. Then goes on to prove the risen Christ.

So when you read the Bible read all of what a subject contains, not just a part. As long as you believe that Christ rose from the dead, and sits on the right hand of the Father in Heaven, you are correct, and this discussion does not apply.

PS: Now as to whether you are walking by the Spirit, or the Flesh?. This is a different subject all together.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Samuel Owens: I think the bus just passed by, and no one caught it.

HP: 1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

I agree with you concerning the direct context of the passage, but there is far more that can be gleaned from this passage than simply a discussion about the resurrection. One issue is that they obvious felt they were saved , yet IF Christ had not been raised from the dead their faith would have been in vain. This shows clearly that their eternal life was not based on faith alone, nor on the sacrifice alone. Apart from the resurrection their faith would be in vain.

So much for saved by faith alone. The resurrection is a condition God had to fulfill to accomplish our salvation. I am certain that if we explored the issue there would be other conditions of salvation that God fulfilled.

Developing that notion one will find ones salvation based on many things besides faith. Jesus said, Lu 13:3 “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.” Here is yet another condition on the part of man, without which no man shall be saved. It could be also be stated, And if ye have not repented, your faith is in vain, for apart from repentance ye are yet in your sins.
Ones faith could be in vain and one yet in their sins for yet other reasons as well. As we read the Apostle James one will find Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? One could state on the full authority of Scripture, If ye have not works consistent with your faith, your faith is in vain and ye are yet in your sins.

There are many applications to the verse Samuel, that all would do well to consider. Of a truth, applications are often as important if not more important to a given generation that the single issue mentioned in the text. God has many messages for us if we will treat the Scriptures as spiritual book that is spiritually discerned and seek Him for ways in which to apply the Word to our hearts and lives, even as with this verse considering that we do believe in the resurrection. A person’s faith may be in vain and as such find themselves still in their sins for any number of reasons. This particular text should open our hearts and minds to a much broader application than simply the resurrection.

Do not fret. The bus has not passed us by. It is still in the station boarding ideas for fodder. :thumbs:

This passage would make a great text Pastors!

 

[Pastor Larry]

So much for saved by faith alone.

This shows a gross misunderstanding of what "saved by faith alone" means. No one who believes in "saved by faith alone" denies the necessity of the death or the resurrection, the perfect life, or many other things that are "conditions" for salvation.

A person that would be helpful for you to understand this is R. C. Sproul. He has a number of good resources that will help you clarify this.

 

[Samuel Owen]

I totally agree, there are more ways your faith may be in vain! than this one particular incident. And if in reading, one has doubts, perhaps further study would be advisable. A person might start! by examining the desires of their heart.

If their desires are in bigger cars, houses, money, and the desires of the world. And not in Heavenly things, pleasing God, study of the word, helping others, and laying up treasures in Heaven. Perhaps - his faith is in vain.

 

[OldRegular]

There are apparently some on this Forum who believe that a person can be saved by the Power of God but that God is not able to keep that which belongs to Him. That is indeed tragic, never having the assurance that God they are eternally secure in the Hand of God.

The doctrine of the ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or the ‘Security of the True Believer’ is one that is cherished by most Baptists. [Freewill Baptists believe that a true believer can loose their salvation.] Only the Baptists and Presbyterians among all denominations hold to a strict doctrine of the ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or the ‘Security of the Believer’. I am not sure which term most accurately expresses the doctrine. It is certain that Saints will not be able to persevere without the active support of God. The statement from the 1677 Baptist Confession of Faith expresses both thoughts as shown in the following excerpt:

“Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, (whence He still begets and nourishish them in Faith, Repentance, Love, Joy, Hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality).”

Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved and has effectually called and sanctified by His spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace but they will certainly persevere in that state until the end and be eternally saved.

This is because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [He will never change His mind.] and therefore He continues to beget [create] and nourish them in faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit which lead to immortality.

Scripture which show that true believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God are as follows:

John 6:35-40, KJV
35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10:27-30, KJV
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

Romans 8:28-30, KJV
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The above passages clearly prove that that believers are kept eternally secure by the power of God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

OldRegular: There are apparently some on this Forum who believe that a person can be saved by the Power of God but that God is not able to keep that which belongs to Him. That is indeed tragic, never having the assurance that God they are eternally secure in the Hand of God.

HP: I am certainly glad that your comments do not apply to me. Matter of fact, I do not know any on the list that they would apply to. Who have you read that would not believe that God can keep that which belongs to Him, or that one never has had nor can have the assurance that they are eternally secure in Christ?

Wonderful passages of assurance by the way. :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

OldRegular: There are apparently some on this Forum who believe that a person can be saved by the Power of God but that God is not able to keep that which belongs to Him. That is indeed tragic, never having the assurance that God they are eternally secure in the Hand of God.

WE can add to this statement OldRegular. Not only is God able, But God WILL keep that which belongs to Him in Christ. Which is found in dozens of scriptures throughout the bible. The few you posted are just a small sample.

God Bless! :jesus:

 

[steaver]

1Th 5:23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it].

:jesus:

 

[DeafPosttrib]

OldRegular,

You quoted of passages on security salvation.

John 6:35-40: many baptists saying, when anyone who come to Christ, Christ will not cast saved person out, and Christ will not lose anyone. This passage prove of security salvation.

I want to show you verse 35 and 37; Christ said: "he that cometh to me "cometh" in present tense means coming. This is speak of individual's decision and freewill want to come to Christ for salvation same in Rev. 22:17 says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will let him take the water of lifee freely." This verse tells us, we allow anyone who desire want to be saved, let person come in freewill decision.

Same otherwise, Christ says, "come and follow me". So, in word, 'cometh' is a present tense means continue follow him in present tense, therefore, Christ will not cast person away, while follow him same time. Or, if anyone do not want to come to Christ, then person would not be saved. In other word, if person stopped follow Christ, then Christ would cast person away same as John 15:6; and Romans 11:19-23.

Back to John 6:35. Notice Christ said, "...and he that believeth on me". 'Believeth' is a present tense means currently believe or believing. Anyone who believing in Christ, will not cast away. If anyone is stopped believing, shall be cast away according Romans 11:19,20.

Also, in John 6:37, Christ said, "him that cometh to me". 'Cometh' is a present tense, means currently come well as same as 'coming'. 'Coming' is same common sense as "follow Christ". Christ promises us, if anyone is continue following him, so He will not removed person away while following Him. Or, if a perosn stopped follow him, person would be removed away.

John 6:35-39 telling us, that the promise to us as individual, if anyone who is continue follow Christ, therefore, will not cast away.

John 10:27-30 Many baptists or securists citied this passage as security salvation proof. They saying that no one can take us away from Christ's hand. Because Christ have the power to hold us-salvation. That's true. Amen!

But, look at John 10:27 says, "My sheep HEAR my voice, and I know them, and they FOLLOW me:"

There are two key words in this verse- 'hear' and 'follow'. Both are present words. Christ promises us, if anyone hear the gospel, and then to follow Christ, no one will take us away out of his hand, long as are still secure in his hand-salvation. OR, otherwise, if we stopped listening, and follow Him, then He would loose us out of his hand. Both 'hear' and 'follow' are conditional, that we are responsible to meet for our salvation. We must continue follow Christ all the way throughout our life till die, or Christ comes. Or, if we quit follow Christ in the midst of our life, and fall back to world, when by the time we die, then we will not be saved - Matt. 10:22; & Matt. 24:13. Matt. 24:13 commands us that we ought to endure all the way till death or Lord comes, do not quit. If we quit, then we shall not have eternal life at the end.

Romans 8:28-30 Many securists citied this passage as security salvation proof. But, the context of Romans 8:35-39 nothing say anything about salvation. This context talking about God's LOVE. Everything cannot separate us(faithful Christians) from God's Love. No matter what situations, we facing, God still love us always all the times.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DPT: God still love us always all the times.

HP: Excellent points. :thumbs: God is love. He loves those in hell as well. It was not His will for any to go there. 2Pe 3:9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[OldRegular]

DeafPostTrib

You did not respond to many of the passages I quoted.

John 6:37-40, KJV
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10:29-30, KJV
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

Romans 8:30, KJV
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

In the plan of God those he chose to salvation in Jesus Christ are already glorified as shown above.