Are Bapticostal welcome here.

Phillip,

Your post is irrelevant because neither the Assemblies of God nor the Bapticostals PRACTICE hearing new revelations from God.

 

Here is a link to an article that may help some to better understand Bapticostals:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2002/oct04.html

 

Craig, what has that post to do with anything? It is simply taking experiences where the Holy Spirit moved to begin revivals and other such things.

I didn't find anything in there about Baptists acting like pentecostals and I certainly think the writer was somewhat biased and his title explains it all. However, I don't see the point in the article itself.

Nobody here will argue with you that the Holy Spirit will move in people and will convict and is capable of starting revivals through the use of other people.

What we are against is the incorherent babbling as practiced by the pentecostals today. It is not only "not Biblical", but it is not a historical Baptist doctrine.

You also must remember what Dr. Bob said about reading old "quotes" when "filled with the spirit" and other such items are mentioned. Besides, if one particular evangelist back when said something that was wrong, we certainly cannot hold that as a tennant behind Baptist doctrine----they are human, just like we are, and capable of distorting doctrine at times.

Even though I believe pretty much like Dr. Bob and most issues, I would imagine he has even made a statement that was wrong, once or twice in his life.

 

Speaking in tongues is merely one of the expressions Bapticostalism. In order to understand this or any other group, it is important to understand where they are coming from. Bapticostals believe in what is often termed a second work of grace, the Baptism or filling of the Holy Spirit, the most obvious initial manifestation of which (in their view) is speaking in tongues. From Paul's point of view, and from the point of view of the persons mentioned in the article that I provided the link to, the manifestation of tongues, if it is manifested at all, is very much secondary to the experience of having the Holy Spirit engulf the believer and anoint him for service.

The testimony of Dwight Moody, only briefly mentioned in the article, is a testimony that many Baptists today could benefit from if they would prayerfully take it into consideration.

I heartily recommend the reading of R.A. Torrey’s book, The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit.

 

Yes. It certainly is. It is not pentecostal. I am not pentecostal. I have dear friends who are, and we often "discuss" our differences regarding the issue. But I do not disparage their commitment to many Baptist principles we agree on because I have differences with them about others.

Thanks for asking the question. Also, I remeber a thread a while back in which I said some less than thoughtful things to you. I deeply apologise and ask your forgiveness. I hope no one hear thinks I have anything but the deepest appreciation for this Board and the opportunity it gives us to engage each other. God bless you and have a wonderful Christmas.

Dave

 

To DHK:

If I misunderstood some of your points in your last response I apologise.

Dave

 

Brethren, the following is an opinion, based on observation and experience, so don't ask me to prove any of it. I post it only in hopes that it may be useful to others.

I would like to try and make a distinction here. I have been familiar with the Pentecostal and/or Charismatic movement for more than 25 years. Though I never professed or exhibited the "signs or gifts" so characteristic of it, I was, nevertheless, greatly injured by my association with this movement, not so much because of "gifts" but because of a lot of the false teaching and unsound doctrine that was going around back then, much of which has, BTW, been recycled for the vulnerable and ignorant of today. There is great sensitivity with this issue because, IMO, like other segments of the church where error is involved, there are genuine Christians involved in this movement, people who are regenerate and love the Lord.

But the great majority of the visible Charismatic movement around the world can be none other than counterfeit, for the simple reason it is controlled by a counterfeit spirit(s). I have witnessed it firsthand. As sure as the Holy Spirit exists and dwells within every regenerate believer, there exists a counterfeit spirit(s), who is more than willing to dole out supernatural experiences in return for worship. With the regenerate, these experiences always manifest themselves in the soulish realm - the mind, emotions, and will. With the unregenerate, I can't be sure their spirit is not involved since they manifest these experiences through the flesh, also.

That said, I believe there are Christians in the world today who are given gifts by the Holy Spirit. They are almost always manifested in private situations and, almost without exception, used for the edification of the brethren, to minister to them, as described in scripture. From what I know, tongues are a rare and much less desirable gift than others. Additionally, the people I've known who manifested one or more of these "gifts", are very humble and shy about it, and are very sound in their doctrine and theology. In short, I suspect the genuine "gifts of the Spirit" (as opposed to the "false gifts", another subject) are rarely public or visible. The people I've known like this never talked about it and were almost shy about it.

I would think all Charismatics fall in one of these categories, or somewhere in between. It would seem a large subset is counterfeit altogether. I suspect there are some, perhaps many, who live in both realms. The extremes are rather easy to discern. Convulsing, barking like a dog, uncontrolled laughter are obvious examples of counterfeit manifestations, yet real. On the other end of the spectrum, and much more rare in my experience, is the humble, gentle, servant of God, sound in mind and Biblical doctrine, and upon whom God has bestowed a "Gift".

May I say that I am neither mystical, naive, or prone to get carried away. I realize there are those who deny the reality of the spiritual world that exists around us. My hope is that this post will be read the way it is intended, and will serve to further illuminate the subject rather than detract from it.

Merry Christmas to All.

 

Thank you IveyLeaguer

mark

 

In my humble opinion, that is almost exactly how Paul described the proper "use" of spiritual gifts.

The gifts are for the edification of the Church. They are not expressly for the benefit of the person who has the gift. The Holy Spirit works the gift through whom He pleases, for the benefit of the Church as He pleases.

We are to "desire the greater gifts", but for one to boast and say he has been given a particular gift, makes me think it is false because the gifts are given to and for the Church. If people "fixate" on, and boast of the gifts they have received, they are glorying in themselves and the flesh because the gifts do not belong to them.

I am not convinced the Bible teaches the gifts are no longer in effect. I have never witnessed anyone speaking in tongues. Being the skeptical type, it would take some convincing to make me believe it was real, if I did witness it. But, I am perfectly willing to leave the dispensation of gifts to the Holy Spirit. I am not Bapticostal. I don't have much in the way of "charisma" anyway. Maybe that's my gift.

 

IveyLeaguer,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, and the spirit with which you shared them.

 

If people make a case that Bapticostals should be thrown off the board based on the fact that the Bapticostals take a different view of view of scriptures relating to Spiritual Gifts, Wouldent it then follow that - KJVO Baptists, Post-Millenial Baptists, Baptists that have Female Ministers, Preterist Baptists, Old Earth Creationist Baptists and various other types of beliefs that differ to yours should be thrown out as well?

What happened to the Baptist Distinctive of Autonomy of the local church? What about a Baptists right to read scripture and make his own conclusions rather than being forced to accept someone elses opinion or face being thrown out of the BB?

Who here has the right to say exactly what a Baptist is and how they must believe on every issue relating to the Bible?

 

If they profess to be Baptists, surely that is enough? Or are you willing to violate the Baptist principles of local autonomy and soul liberty...?

And you didn't answer Ben's question about the other types of Baptist to whom he referred - should they post in the 'Baptist Only' fora?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[non-baptist posting]

[ December 22, 2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob ]

 

Surely you know by now Matt, that what it means to be baptist for so many today, especially for those who are Southern Baptists, Baptist distinctives such as soul competency, priesthood of every believer, autonomy of the local church, are meaningless and take a backseat to Fundamentalistic Doctrines. One of the sad realities discussions like this reveal, is that all these "Baptists" don't know what you're talking about. We should have never let Training Union Die.

Dave </font>[/QUOTE]Dave, I say this in all humbleness. Maybe you are new to the board and do not understand. The discussion of THIS thread is "Should Baptiscostals post on this board."

As a Southern Baptist I am getting a little sick of you using every single post to make your tyrade against the Southern Baptist Convention. If you wish to do this, start a new thread; but please stop making it part of every single post---as it becomes very much like propaganda since obviously you don't like the Southern Baptist Convention, so therefore, drop it already. Please. Start a new thread and we will debate it.

I am not an administrator nor a moderator, but if I were I would have you open a new thread on this subject. I personally do not want to argue the merits of the convention with you on every post that is concerning another subject, but you insistance at slamming the convention makes me feel that I must.

So, in order to follow the rules of the board and stick to the subject at hand, without dragging in your biases of the convention, I humbly suggest opening a new thread where you can go on the biggest tyrade you wish about the convention and pros and cons can be discussed there.

The shape or style of who was elected to the convention has NOTHING to do with Bapticostals.

Humbly yours,
Phillip

 

I must agree with you. Those who are admitted Bapticostals should post on the other sections. Admittedly, they are different from Baptist otherwise, why would they try to place the word pentecostal into their name.

 

Baptist is NOT equal to Bapticostal; seems they should learn this.

Bapticostal IS equal to charismatic; they should also learn this.

Baptists are NOT charismatic; PERIOD.

 

Bapticostal are not welcome after all. I have been tossed from the Baptist Board and I am not allowed to post any longer. I knew eventually the fundamentalist would win out and I was expecting such action.
I would like to thank those kind Christians that have supported me and I recognize there are some mightly fine Christian folks here and would be proud and honored to call you brothers and sisters in Christ and they incluse BenW, DavidWhite3, CraigbytheSea, Matt Black and especially Lady Eagle who is what a moderator should be and she has shown it by her leadership and true Christian spirit of fairness and understanding. No wonder she is running away with the member of the year.
I will miss posting with you folks and I hold no animosity towards anyone and though some are acting in ignorance of Scripture here and have been less than Christian in their behavior and Christian tolerance I wish them well and accept them as brethren also. I just pray that one day we will all come to the understanding of the truth but I know this will ultimately not be until we are face to face with Jesus and we will not be looking through the glass darkly as we are now doing.
I forgive all that have said harmful things and I wish everyone well. My only sin here was to confess to be a Baptist that believes in Gods Holy Word and takes the Bible at face value and act on it. I proudly state that I have received the Gift of Tongues and have been filled with his Holy Spirit and for this I thank God. Hope to post with some of you folks again down the road but if not I shall see you in Glory. God Bless you all. Fat Eagle.

 

Mixter7, Your post is quite nice. It is interesting how you say that we who do not believe in pentecostalism are "fundamentalist winning out" and then you tell us how we are unbiblical and unChristlike, blah blah blah, THEN you turn around and forgive us for our sins.

CUTE!

Oh, maybe you will be called to the foreign mission board where you can actually use your gift of speaking in tongues to spread the gospel and edify the natives in their own tongue.