Are Calvinists in danger of HELL FIRE??

[JustChristian]

There may be better ones, but I would suggest the "Five Great Alones" of the Reformation, that is, that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone, to the glory of God alone, on the authority of Scripture alone.

That says nothing about limited atonement, election, etc. You're claiming that it summarizes Calvin's theology?

 

[JustChristian]

I don't know of any Christian (Calvinist or not) who views their saved state with smugness. And all the Christians I know who do believe the Doctrines of Grace of the Reformation (or "Calvinism" to use your word) are the very opposite of smug. They know that God saved them although there was nothing good in them that should motivate Him to do so, and He did it in a way that was tremedously costly to Himself. Such a belief does not lead to smugness. You might just as well say that a non-Calvinistic person might be smug because they "went forward" at a tent meeting, or "prayed the sinner's prayer", or signed their name on a decision card. (Note - I am not accusing non-Calvinists of actually thinking like that, just that it is no more accurate to accuse Calvinists of smugness as it would be to accuse non-Calvinists of the same thing.)

I would agree with you is questioning the conversion of those who "went forward" at a tent meeting, or "prayed the sinner's prayer", or signed their name on a decision card but never demonstrated that they had undergone a born again experience or bore fruit resulting from their conversion. They're definitely in the same boat with everyone else who believe that salvation is a one-time act that never changes your life. Christ Himself called us to "Come and follow Me" not to sit and believe that I exist whether that belief be self initiated or wholly initiated and carried out by God.

Jesus' ministry only lasted three years. All of His words and actions have meaning to future would be and practicing Christians down through the ages. And yet, we tend to quote Paul or John much more often than Christ Himself. What did Jesus say about salvation? That's much more important to me.

 

[JustChristian]

I don't know of any Christian (Calvinist or not) who views their saved state with smugness. And all the Christians I know who do believe the Doctrines of Grace of the Reformation (or "Calvinism" to use your word) are the very opposite of smug. They know that God saved them although there was nothing good in them that should motivate Him to do so, and He did it in a way that was tremedously costly to Himself. Such a belief does not lead to smugness. You might just as well say that a non-Calvinistic person might be smug because they "went forward" at a tent meeting, or "prayed the sinner's prayer", or signed their name on a decision card. (Note - I am not accusing non-Calvinists of actually thinking like that, just that it is no more accurate to accuse Calvinists of smugness as it would be to accuse non-Calvinists of the same thing.)

How do Calvinists have assurance of their salvation? Where does this come from?

 

[David Lamb]

How do Calvinists have assurance of their salvation? Where does this come from?

They have assurance (as I assume all Christian believers do) because their salvation is based on the finished work of Jesus Christ. The assurance comes from the scriptures. For example, Hebrews 6.17-20:

17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,
20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.​

The assurance is confirmed by the work of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8.16-17:

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint–heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.​

 

[JustChristian]

They have assurance (as I assume all Christian believers do) because their salvation is based on the finished work of Jesus Christ. The assurance comes from the scriptures. For example, Hebrews 6.17-20:

17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,
20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.​

The assurance is confirmed by the work of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8.16-17:

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint–heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.​

You might be able to argue that this provides assurance for a group or class of individuals but I see nothing here that provides assurance for a specific individual. Pick a Calvinist believing member of the board, any one. How does that individual have assurance of their salvation. General statements made in the Bible do not provide that in my view.

 

[Ed Franklin]

........... And yet, we tend to quote Paul or John much more often than Christ Himself. What did Jesus say about salvation? That's much more important to me.

Are you saying that the quotations of the statements of the Lord Jesus carry more weight than the writings of (for example) Paul and John? Are the "red letter" portions of your Bible superior to other parts of the Word?

How can you reconcile this idea with the following passage of Scripture?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(2Ti 3:16)

 

[David Lamb]

You might be able to argue that this provides assurance for a group or class of individuals but I see nothing here that provides assurance for a specific individual. Pick a Calvinist believing member of the board, any one. How does that individual have assurance of their salvation. General statements made in the Bible do not provide that in my view.

That's fine - just change the word "they" in my previous post to "I", and the word "their" to "my". They are not "general statements made in the bible", for both passages occur in letters written to Christians.

 

[TomMann]

How do Calvinists have assurance of their salvation? Where does this come from?

Now you have my curiosity up.... How do Arminian's have assurance of their salvation? Where does this come from?

 

[donnA]

I'm glad to see it seems to be ok on the BB for the op to challenge the salvation of calvinists.

 

[webdog]

I'm glad to see it seems to be ok on the BB for the op to challenge the salvation of calvinists.

Where?

 

[David Lamb]

You might be able to argue that this provides assurance for a group or class of individuals but I see nothing here that provides assurance for a specific individual. Pick a Calvinist believing member of the board, any one. How does that individual have assurance of their salvation. General statements made in the Bible do not provide that in my view.

Further to my earlier reply, I am just wondering how a group of people can have assurance if the individuals in that group don't have it. Paul addressed the letter to the Romans:

7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 ¶ First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. Romans 1.7-8


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So the people he was addressing were (i) beloved of God, (ii) called to be saints, and (iii) had faith. Maybe I have misunderstood you, but to me, it seems as if you are saying that a group of people (as a group) can be "beloved of God, called to be saints," have faith, and have assurance, even if those things are not true of any individual in that group. If that is not what you mean, perhaps you could explain what you do mean.

 

[donnA]

Where?

the very title, the op, it assumes calvinists are not saved and are going to hell. why, because they are calvinists

 

[webdog]

the very title, the op, it assumes calvinists are not saved and are going to hell. why, because they are calvinists

The OP is formed in a question. It does not state they are not saved.

I guess we read into things what we want to...

 

[David Lamb]

The OP is formed in a question. It does not state they are not saved.

I guess we read into things what we want to...

True, so far as the title was concerned. But the OP itself, though rather convoluted, certainly did seem to suggest that Calvinists may be on their way to hell. Bismarck wrote:

So, those who allege that their brothers are abandoned by God (nabal) are in danger of truly being abandoned by God themselves.



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He doesn't mention Calvinists there, but if he did not mean them, it seems strange that he should have given this thread the title that he did give it. (Of course the above quote is a gross misrepresentation of what Calvinists believe).