-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Are Christian Bookstores and Printed Bibles Obsolete?
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
- Status
Happy: "What is a Catholic Bible?
What would it say on the Cover that would instantly notify a person it is not the Holy Bible, but rather, a Catholic Bible?"
Don't get yourself in a tizzy but the original 1611 KJV included all the Catholic bible books and even a few more.
Rob
What would it say on the Cover that would instantly notify a person it is not the Holy Bible, but rather, a Catholic Bible?"
Don't get yourself in a tizzy but the original 1611 KJV included all the Catholic bible books and even a few more.
Rob
Cant you get a bible from the Walmart? NIV, KJ, NKJ......Big print, regular print, red lettering, black lettering, naugahyde, paper, hard cover.....so whats the big deal?
Thank you.
Thanks. And BTW me asking a couple of questions should not have been an indicator I was worried or upset.
Thanks.
It is my understanding (the Catholic view is) that purgatory is not so much a PLACE, as it is a FINAL purification for believers WHO undergo such purification (ie by fire) just before their final (ie bodily) transformation.
Personally I believe....the faithful are baptized with the Holy Spirit and with the all consuming fire of God. That when we GIVE to him full all consuming control over our "wholeness"...is body, soul & spirit...He KEEPS us unto Him, and we ultimately become His "inheritance".
Luke.3
Heb.12
- [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
- [29] For our God is a consuming fire.
That, too, is my understanding of purgatory. It is interesting to note that universalists tend to conflate hell with purgatory, as in "everyone goes to purgatory until their sins are burned out, at which time everyone is reconciled to God".
Tbh, quite often it will say "Catholic Bible", "Catholic Edition", or "With Apocrypha" on the cover. There are two translations, as well, that are prepared for Catholics: the New American Bible (not to be confused with the New American Standard) and the Douay/Rheims.
Well, that's the fun of having a microphone and a title....."ya get to tell them what to think"... no matter how ridiculous it is.
Thanks.
I probably do have in my collection a "Catholic" Bible, because of the additional texts.
I favor older Bibles, not the "new" blah blah Bibles.
Hi Happy: The answer to your second question is that it may say it on the cover, but with a nice, leather bound Bible, the identification of "Catholic" will usually be found on the spine.
The answer to your first question is below. It's a bit long, but I cut out as much as I felt I could. I've listed the website for a full reading of the paper I paraphrased and quoted from.
This response is paraphrased and directly quoted from Catholic vs. Protestant Bibles by Greg Witherow. For a full transcript go to http://www.holytrinityparish.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Our-Catholic-Bibles.pdf.
In the Catholic Bible Old Testament, there are seven books and parts of two others, that are not in the Protestant Bible. These are: Tobit, Judith, The Book of Wisdom, Sirach (also called Ecclesiasticus), Baruch, 1 and 2 Maccabees, seven chapters in the book of Esther and two chapters and a prayer in the book of Daniel. We refer to these books as the Deuterocanonical books but you may know them as Apocryphal books. All of these books were part of the KJV Bible until the early 19th century and were usually found in the back.
When Christ lived, there was no one canon recognized as divinely inspired. The Pharisees revered 39 books (the same found in Protestant bibles today) while the Sadducee's and the Samaritans recognized only the first five books of Moses -- the Pentateuch (Genesis - Deuteronomy.) The first three groups, Pharisees, Sadducees and Samaritans were geographically centered in Palestine. The last group, the Hellenists, Greek-speaking Jews, were also located in Palestine but were also spread throughout the Roman Empire. They revered the scriptures contained in the Greek Septuagint – the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, which was completed around 150 B.C.
"Christ, the Apostles and the early Christians used the Septuagint as their primary Old Testament Bible. Of the approximately 300 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, two-thirds of them are quotes from the Septuagint as opposed to the Hebrew Scriptures. How do we know? Because the wording of the Septuagint is sometimes different from that of the Hebrew Bible. A classic example of this is Isaiah 7:14. In the original Hebrew, it states that a young woman (Hebrew: almah) will bear a child and he shall be called Emmanuel. In the Greek Septuagint, it states that a virgin (Greek: parthenos) will bear a child and he shall be called Emmanuel. Matthew the Apostle, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, chose the Greek Septuagint version of this verse to quote in Matthew 1:23 where he declares, “a virgin shall be with Child” in the Christmas story. This is just one of many examples of how it can be determined which Old Testament version is being used by the New Testament writers."
"When the Roman legions burned the Temple during the Jewish Wars in 70 A.D. much of the Jewish way of life lay in embers. Gone was the central unifying symbol of Judaism. Furthermore, the Christian faith was threatening Judaism as it was proclaiming that Jesus of Nazareth was the Jewish Messiah. The Old Testament Bible of the Christians was the Septuagint and as such, the Jews grew increasingly disenchanted with it. With the twin threats of the Roman Legions and the Christian faith looming, the Pharisees convened the council of Jamnia towards the end of the 1st century A.D to reaffirm the truths of Judaism. At the council, the Pharisees rejected the Septuagint (a Greek language document and increasingly associated by many as a Christian book) and declared that only the Hebrew language books traditionally embraced by the Pharisees would be regarded as divinely inspired. The resulting Jewish canon contains the list of books Protestants regard as canonical today.
In the early centuries, there were controversies in the Church over what the New Testament canon should be. The Church finally settled the matter in three local (as opposed to an ecumenical) councils. They were the council of Rome (382 A.D.), the council of Hippo (393 A.D.), and the council of Carthage (397 A.D.). In these councils, the Catholic Church authoritatively and infallibly declared what books are to be considered divinely inspired and authoritative. The 27 books that make up our New Testament were declared canonical in these councils. And as such the matter was considered closed. But the Church didn’t just list the New Testament books; she also listed the Old Testament books. And that list contained the Deuterocanonical books found in Catholic Bibles today. The canon was reaffirmed at Carthage (419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442) and Trent (1546). In other words, they were viewed as inspired scripture as the rest of the Old and New Testament was.
However, this changed during the Reformation when Luther rejected the canonicity of the Deuterocanonical books. Luther used three arguments for his decision. First of all the Deuterocanonicals gave strong Biblical support for purgatory. This was proof to Luther that the books were in error, as Luther did not accept the teaching of purgatory. As God’s Word cannot contain error and, according to Luther, these books obviously had such an error, he removed them. Luther also appealed to the fact that the Jews had rejected the Septuagint (with its Deuterocanonical books) at the council of Jamnia. Finally, Luther pointed out that some of the Church Fathers doubted the inspiration of the Deuterocanonicals. In time the rest of the Protestant Reformers fell in line. The result is that today the Protestant Bible has 66 books while the Catholic Bible steadfastly maintains the 73 books she has had for 2,000 years.
If you wish to read more - such as which Early Church Fathers doubted the inspiration of the Deuterocanonical books, go to the website I provided. I hope this answers your questions.
Thanks.
It is my understanding (the Catholic view is) that purgatory is not so much a PLACE, as it is a FINAL purification for believers WHO undergo such purification (ie by fire) just before their final (ie bodily) transformation.
Personally I believe....the faithful are baptized with the Holy Spirit and with the all consuming fire of God. That when we GIVE to him full all consuming control over our "wholeness"...is body, soul & spirit...He KEEPS us unto Him, and we ultimately become His "inheritance".
Luke.3
Heb.12
- [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
- [29] For our God is a consuming fire.
Purgatory is a purgation of the stain of sin from our souls. It is not a second chance as many believe, but a cleansing of the stain of sin on our souls. In order to go to Purgatory, a person must have received salvation first. Those who reject Christ or God our Father or who die in an unrepentant state of sin do not go to Purgatory.
Here are bible verses that support Purgatory: 25 Descriptive and Clear Bible Passages About Purgatory.
And here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs regarding Purgatory and the accompanying footnotes: (Note: many times, when a teaching is defined at a later council, many believe that it was conceived at that council. Not so. The councils that define teachings are working on ancient beliefs, of which Purgatory is one. Due to controversies around the teaching or because of misunderstandings, the Church chooses to define it as a way of clearing the air and ensuring all understood what she taught.)
III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. [604] The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: [605]
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come. [606]
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” [607] From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. [608] The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them. [609]
604 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000.
605 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.
606 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. Mt 12:31.
607 2 Macc 12:46.
608 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856.
609 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5.
Thank you for your commentary.
A couple of things are confusing...
1) Where does the identifying name Purgatory come from? purging? purification? Who coined the term Purgatory?
2) Purgatory you say is a "purgation" ; an action.
3) Purgatory you say is a "place" ; ie "go to Purgatory".
4) Where is this literal place according to the Catholics?
....Earth's surface? Grave? Earth's center, ie Hell? Sheol? Hades? Gehenna? Tartarus?
Thanks
Thank you.
You're welcome. Can you tell my major was History? LOL Have a good week!mjjddh ~ Thank you kindly for your efforts of such a detailed response.
China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls [LINK]
Bookstores obsolete? China controls them both!
Rob
Bookstores obsolete? China controls them both!
Rob
I don't know of any Christian bookstores in our area. The closest one recently closed. As a result, we have a bookstore at our church. (We also have a church library.)
- Status