Are Christians in Trouble Spiritually?

[tyndale1946]

I don't eat fish that does not have scales and fins ..on clothing ? Well I do not believe in religious restrictions I do however believe in Christian convictions. The New Testament did away with OT religious restrictions like sacrificing animals for sin and other however When it comes to clean and non clean animals ,fowl, fish that was not nailed to the Tree. The law of ordinance was nailed the tree but the Ten Commandments and the eating of what is clean and unclean was not. Fish ,foul and animals that were unclean still are because they can cause parasite in your stomach . When reading " What God has cleansed is cleansed " was referring to Gentiles ..the Jewish people believe that Gentiles were UNCLEAN like unclean animals. In fact Gentiles were not allowed to go into the holy place ..not even were Jews allowed behind the holy of holies only Priest were but Yeshua gave all born again access to the Throne of God when we pray in spirit.. Christ Yeshua split the veil , Yeshua broke down the dividing wall of separation of Jews and Gentiles bringing them both together... that is all who are born again they are of the seed of Abraham as God promised Abraham ...all that are born again of Christ Yeshua are Jew ( GAL. 3:29 )

There are some on here who say you need to eat this or eat that!... My first 50 years I was an Old School Baptist. I can tell you that Old School Baptist love to eat... Some would be checking their watch during Sunday Service if the preacher was long winded. The congregation was getting hungry and couldn't wait to get to the table and fill their plate on the various goodie the sisters brought. My first wife was a carnivore and I was one too... So were the rest of the Old Baptist I grew up with... I say this to bring up my second marriage after my first passed away... I married another Christian lady but discovered before I married her she was a Vegetarian... She loved her diary products... Thank God she wasn't Vegan... I've been a vegetarian over 14 years... I am in pretty good health being 71... So being vegetarian changed my lifestyle and I learned to appreciate fake meat... I get razzed by others on here come Thanksgiving and Christmas and it is all in good fun... I don't usually come here I hang my hat in the C/A Forum but this seem to be an interesting subject... I leave this thought relating to the Opening Post... The only reason I can see that any Christian can get into any trouble Spiritually is because they forget the fruits of the Spirit when talking to each other... Brother Glen

 

[JonShaff]

I don't eat fish that does not have scales and fins ..on clothing ? Well I do not believe in religious restrictions I do however believe in Christian convictions. The New Testament did away with OT religious restrictions like sacrificing animals for sin and other however When it comes to clean and non clean animals ,fowl, fish that was not nailed to the Tree. The law of ordinance was nailed the tree but the Ten Commandments and the eating of what is clean and unclean was not. Fish ,foul and animals that were unclean still are because they can cause parasite in your stomach . When reading " What God has cleansed is cleansed " was referring to Gentiles ..the Jewish people believe that Gentiles were UNCLEAN like unclean animals. In fact Gentiles were not allowed to go into the holy place ..not even were Jews allowed behind the holy of holies only Priest were but Yeshua gave all born again access to the Throne of God when we pray in spirit.. Christ Yeshua split the veil , Yeshua broke down the dividing wall of separation of Jews and Gentiles bringing them both together... that is all who are born again they are of the seed of Abraham as God promised Abraham ...all that are born again of Christ Yeshua are Jew ( GAL. 3:29 )

So the unclean animals represented Gentiles, but when gentiles were grafted in and declared clean, you still hold on to the shadow. So why not keep sacrificing goats?

 

[Jason1]

So the unclean animals represented Gentiles, but when gentiles were grafted in and declared clean, you still hold on to the shadow. So why not keep sacrificing goats?

There was no reason given as to why not to unclean meats (lev 11) other than to be set-apart for He is set-apart (holy).

We can make good guesses such as for health reasons. Those in Lev 11 are deleterious to us because of the increased toxin load, parasite load, and/or disease load. Even doctors today will tell you to quit eating pork if you have heart problems.

We can also apply the clean/unclean spiritually but that will not negate the written law which is there for our good (deu 10:13).

And of coarse, we must obey every word of the Father. Sacrificing animals today cannot be done because He told us not to do it anywhere we please, but only where He places His name. He took that away in 70ad so by not sacrificing, we are in obedience.

 

[JonShaff]

There was no reason given as to why not to unclean meats (lev 11) other than to be set-apart for He is set-apart (holy).

We can make good guesses such as for health reasons. Those in Lev 11 are deleterious to us because of the increased toxin load, parasite load, and/or disease load. Even doctors today will tell you to quit eating pork if you have heart problems.

We can also apply the clean/unclean spiritually but that will not negate the written law which is there for our good (deu 10:13).

And of coarse, we must obey every word of the Father. Sacrificing animals today cannot be done because He told us not to do it anywhere we please, but only where He places His name. He took that away in 70ad so by not sacrificing, we are in obedience.

So,
no temple = no sacrifices

no sacrifices = no law

no law = no covenant

no covenant = now fellowship

no temple = no fellowship

But "we are the temple of God"

We are Under a new covenant, to the which we live under the Law of Christ, The Law of Love----->The Spirit of the Law.

We have a new Mediator--Christ

We have a High Priest--Christ

We have sacrifices of Praise

We have incense of Prayers

We are the Temple of God--->individually and corporately

God fills us with His Glory through His Spirit, the Same Spirit who has Sealed us until the Day of Redemption.

The Letter Kills, but the Spirit Gives Life.

1 Timothy 1
5 But the goal of our [e]instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 [f]and [g]immoral men [h]and homosexuals [i]and kidnappers [j]and liars [k]and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

 

[Jason1]

So,
no temple = no sacrifices

no sacrifices = no law

no law = no covenant

no covenant = now fellowship

no temple = no fellowship

But "we are the temple of God"

We are Under a new covenant, to the which we live under the Law of Christ, The Law of Love----->The Spirit of the Law.

We have a new Mediator--Christ

We have a High Priest--Christ

We have sacrifices of Praise

We have incense of Prayers

We are the Temple of God--->individually and corporately

God fills us with His Glory through His Spirit, the Same Spirit who has Sealed us until the Day of Redemption.

The Letter Kills, but the Spirit Gives Life.

1 Timothy 1
5 But the goal of our [e]instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 [f]and [g]immoral men [h]and homosexuals [i]and kidnappers [j]and liars [k]and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Your chain is a little off. We still have laws to follow even though there are no sacrifices able to be practiced today. It is true that the physical points to the spiritual, but we should by no means stop obeying the literal words. That is the definition of sin.

If you wish to understand 1 Timothy 1 better here is a good teaching: 1 Timothy chapter 1

 

[JonShaff]

Your chain is a little off. We still have laws to follow even though there are no sacrifices able to be practiced today. It is true that the physical points to the spiritual, but we should by no means stop obeying the literal words. That is the definition of sin.

If you wish to understand 1 Timothy 1 better here is a good teaching: 1 Timothy chapter 1

We follow the Word of God--->Jesus---->Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore Love is the fulfilling of the Law.
Law = restriction
Love = Liberty

Liberty to do as Christ did--->Love God, Love others

Galatians 5:22-23

P.s. Sin is the transgression of the law--->If we are loving God and Loving Neighbor do we need the law?

 

[Jason1]

We follow the Word of God--->Jesus---->Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore Love is the fulfilling of the Law.
Law = restriction
Love = Liberty

Liberty to do as Christ did--->Love God, Love others

Galatians 5:22-23

P.s. Sin is the transgression of the law--->If we are loving God and Loving Neighbor do we need the law?

Actually, your formula is off again.

Let me rephrase some laws for you to understand:

The law restricts certain perverse sexual acts. This is to protect you and/or the people/animals involved, protect the family unit, protect the community, and set you apart from the pagans. This is all restrictive, yet loving at the same time. If he allowed you to perform those acts you could destroy yourself or others. So the law actually liberates you from bad consequences.

Law = liberty = love

That is the correct formula.

Loving the Creator and your neighbor is an act (not a feeling). So when you keep the commands toward Creator or those toward man you are loving them.

Example: You don't steal from your neighbor and you don't covet his stuff (Both acts of love)
Example: You keep the 7th day sabbath and don't take His name in vain (Both acts of love)

 

[JonShaff]

Actually, your formula is off again.

Let me rephrase some laws for you to understand:

The law restricts certain perverse sexual acts. This is to protect you and/or the people/animals involved, protect the family unit, protect the community, and set you apart from the pagans. This is all restrictive, yet loving at the same time. If he allowed you to perform those acts you could destroy yourself or others. So the law actually liberates you from bad consequences.

Law = liberty = love

That is the correct formula.

Loving the Creator and your neighbor is an act (not a feeling). So when you keep the commands toward Creator or those toward man you are loving them.

Example: You don't steal from your neighbor and you don't covet his stuff (Both acts of love)
Example: You keep the 7th day sabbath and don't take His name in vain (Both acts of love)

Let me help you

if you only love your wife, the way that Christ loves the Church, you WILL NOT defile the marriage bed.

If you Love your neighbor, not only will you Not steal from him, you will GIVE To him (Love goes farther than just a list of "don't's")

If you love God you will GLORIFY His name ("not defaming" it falls short in "action")

If you love God, you'll keep EVERY DAY HOLY.

So you see, Love (yes as an action AND affection) actually Goes farther than the Law goes.

 

[Jason1]

Let me help you

if you only love your wife, the way that Christ loves the Church, you WILL NOT defile the marriage bed.

If you Love your neighbor, not only will you Not steal from him, you will GIVE To him (Love goes farther than just a list of "don't's")

If you love God you will GLORIFY His name ("not defaming" it falls short in "action")

If you love God, you'll keep EVERY DAY HOLY.

So you see, Love (yes as an action AND affection) actually Goes farther than the Law goes.

That is all good except the every day holy bit. Only one day was to be set apart and work ceased thereon. If you ceased work on every day you would be a good for nothing dirt bag who doesn't support his family

Love is legislated into the law. What you are talking about is the spirit of the law (intent). We are to worship in spirit and in truth (letter).

 

[JonShaff]

That is all good except the every day holy bit. Only one day was to be set apart and work ceased thereon. If you ceased work on every day you would be a good for nothing dirt bag who doesn't support his family

Love is legislated into the law. What you are talking about is the spirit of the law (intent). We are to worship in spirit and in truth (letter).

You mean you do not keep every day Holy to God? Are you serving satan the other 6 days? yourself? Whom do you worship if you are not keeping every day Holy to the Lord?

Truth (Jesus)

 

[Mike Hall]

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens.
Mat 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’
Mat 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock,

In this passage we see "believers" coming to the Master and he casts them away because they are breaking the law. Many will say, "I'm in Christ's law" and they will disregard the Father's law found in the torah. They believe that Jesus did away with His Father's words and brought a new law of love.

Is this true?

Joh 8:38 “I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
Joh 12:48 “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day.​

His Father's words are what He spoke and that word is what we will be judged by (torah). Here are some strong admonitions:

Joh 8:43 “Why do you not know what I say? Because you are unable to hear My Word.
Joh 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”
Joh 8:55 “And you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be like you, a liar. But I do know Him and I guard His Word.
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Rom_2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.​

Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

I don't really have the time like I did in the past to refute every comment added by the OP. However, I will state that the OP appears to be leaning towards that line of Judaism with the constant reference to the LAW and the TORAH. Judaism 101.
Jesus had ONLY 2 commandments on which hung all the LAW and the PROPHETS.
Get your head out of JUDAISM.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I don't eat fish that does not have scales and fins ..on clothing ? Well I do not believe in religious restrictions I do however believe in Christian convictions. The New Testament did away with OT religious restrictions like sacrificing animals for sin and other however When it comes to clean and non clean animals ,fowl, fish that was not nailed to the Tree. The law of ordinance was nailed the tree but the Ten Commandments and the eating of what is clean and unclean was not. Fish ,foul and animals that were unclean still are because they can cause parasite in your stomach . When reading " What God has cleansed is cleansed " was referring to Gentiles ..the Jewish people believe that Gentiles were UNCLEAN like unclean animals. In fact Gentiles were not allowed to go into the holy place ..not even were Jews allowed behind the holy of holies only Priest were but Yeshua gave all born again access to the Throne of God when we pray in spirit.. Christ Yeshua split the veil , Yeshua broke down the dividing wall of separation of Jews and Gentiles bringing them both together... that is all who are born again they are of the seed of Abraham as God promised Abraham ...all that are born again of Christ Yeshua are Jew ( GAL. 3:29 )

Mark 7:18-20. 'So He said to them, "Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man proceed evil thoughts, adulteries.........etc."'

Read Acts 10:9-16 again. Peter was commanded to eat the creatures in the sheet. It is true that this lesson was then applied to the Gentiles, but it applied to the food directly. 'Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs' (Genesis 9:3). Clean animals for sacrifice were already given (Genesis 8:20 etc.), but all animals were given to us for food. It is only in the Old (Mosaic) Covenant that there were restrictions. That covenant has now passed away and for the past 2,000 years we can once more eat what we like, giving thanks to God who graciously provides it for us.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I demonstrate my obedience to Him by believing on Him Whom He has sent - by not being made afraid by those who would twist the word in order to re-establish the yoke of the law...

Some people would say, I demonstrate my faith in Him by obedience to Him Whom He has sent - by not being made afraid by those who would twist the word in order to shake off the yoke of the law...

Others might say, God demonstrated his love for me by obedience to Him Who has sent Him - by not having been made afraid by those who would crucify and kill Him the Word of God, in order to re-establish lawlessness and shake off the yoke of obedience to the Law.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And of coarse, we must obey every word of the Father. Sacrificing animals today cannot be done because He told us not to do it anywhere we please, but only where He places His name. He took that away in 70ad so by not sacrificing, we are in obedience.

Are you a Christian? Do you claim to be a Christian?

What if there were 'some-where' <<He places His name>>?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Judaism with the constant reference to the LAW and the TORAH. Judaism 101.
Jesus had ONLY 2 commandments on which hung all the LAW and the PROPHETS.
Get your head out of JUDAISM.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Very, VERY good statement of real, Christian faith! God bless

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You mean you do not keep every day Holy to God? Are you serving satan the other 6 days? yourself? Whom do you worship if you are not keeping every day Holy to the Lord?

<You> may think that <you>, <keep> a day, <<Holy to God>>. You are simply arrogant.

<You> may think that <you>, <keep every day> --or is it just <<the other 6 days>> I beg your pardon, <<Holy to God>>, or, that you are <<keeping every day Holy to the Lord>>. You simply are extremely arrogant. It's all you're really, saying, and all, you really, are.

God only sanctifies days or anything else holy TO HIM! And God does it "in sundry ways", like "in times past having spoken through the prophets", and, "in these last days having spoken by the Son".
But most strongly and veritably unambiguously God sanctified or hallowed or set apart "the day The Seventh Day", through ACT OF WORD OF DEED: "THUS"---by having "RESTED the Seventh Day WHEREFORE THEREFORE the day The Seventh Day is SABBATH of the LORD GOD" and not for no man to honour or dishonour or desecrate or sanctify or defame or consecrate. Because that is God's prerogative and not the prerogative of arrogant mortals. HOW MODERN OR ANCIENT!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You mean you do not keep every day Holy to God? Are you serving satan the other 6 days?

The impression rather is, that Sabbatharian hypocrites serve satan the one day holy to God, most.

One should experience it first hand, to realise.

 

[Christine Baker]

So you rejoice in sin now? Remember sin is breaking the torah (1 john 3:4)

Your obedience is only by belief? That means you can murder, worship idols, steal, and break the sabbath now? Wrong christ you're following if so.

Yoke of law = obedience to YHVH (notice how many new testament letters start by calling themselves "servants")
Yoke of oral law = obedience to man (what galations was against)

Walking in newness of life is having our debts erased (past sins) and walking with new obedience in spirit and in truth (same laws, better mediator).

Jason,

John 16:9 reads, "Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me." These are Jesus' words regarding the Holy Spirit - "He will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgement..." (v.8)

Concerning your statement about walking in newness of life, you are again twisting the scripture. What, may I ask, is 'good news' about having to keep laws? "Hey, everybody! Listen to this good news! Jesus died to put you under a yoke of rules and ordinances! Come and strive to be found worthy!" lol. Don't be daft. Christ died in order to take away the sin of the world.

'It was for FREEDOM that Christ has set us free. Stand firm therefore and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.' (Gal 5:1)

'This I want to hear from you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing with faith?' (Gal 3:2)

'Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?' (Gal 3:3)

'Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.' (Gal 5:4)

'I do not frustrate the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ died in vain.' (Gal 2:21)

The law demonstrates that we cannot fulfil it, hence the scripture locks everyone up under sin, that those who believe on the promise by faith in Christ, will be saved, not those who (call God a liar in their feeble) attempt to uphold the law.

Jason, do you not realise that you are currently one of the wicked, simply because you attempt to keep the law? You are one of those who call God a liar regarding the salvation of Christ and His fulfilment of the law. You say (technically) "I will prove myself worthy by keeping some of the commandments as cherry picked by me and my understanding of the gospel." You are not in agreement with God that all have sinned and fall short of His glory. You seek to establish a righteousness of your own, instead of relying 100% on the finished work of Christ.

To reiterate, I rejoice in Christ, not in sin. I rejoice with exceeding great joy! I gladly bow the knee to Jesus, because He has saved me. I KNOW this by the Holy Spirit Whom He has given me as a pledge of my inheritance. It's the baptism of fire that comes from God and not from man. Have you met God? Has He imparted His Spirit to you? If you have not the Spirit of Christ, you are not His. Simple, really.

Just one more testimony concerning the grace of God...

I sat by my window once, thinking over the day and the conversations I'd had with my friends when suddenly I heard God speak. He said, "I wish you'd speak to Me the way you speak to your friends." I was amazed! I answered, "What!? You mean you want me to drop the reverential bit!?" So I speak ordinarily now. No bowing my head. No feigned 'holiness'. Just plain ol' me as I am. And not only this but I barge in with boldness!lol. Bet you don't do that?lol

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Jason, do you not realise that you are currently one of the wicked, simply because you attempt to keep the law? You are one of those who call God a liar regarding the salvation of Christ and His fulfilment of the law. You say (technically) "I will prove myself worthy by keeping some of the commandments as cherry picked by me and my understanding of the gospel." You are not in agreement with God that all have sinned and fall short of His glory. You seek to establish a righteousness of your own, instead of relying 100% on the finished work of Christ.

Put your own name in the addressee position. Because Paul says so, Whatever one accuses another of, he is himself guilty of...

O the holiness of the antinomians! And they claim they are Christians. That's the most difficult part to understand.

 

[Christine Baker]

How does one get "into Christ"?

Hello there,

For me, getting into Christ was a majorly important issue! I wanted to know FOR SURE that I was in Christ. I'd read about the Holy Spirit being a pledge etc and I wanted this for myself! I fasted a whole weekend! I was STARVING! On the Monday, in a moment of absent mindedness I ate... I was devastated by my apparent weakness and sobbed before God. In that moment I received His Holy Spirit. He said, "Just believe." I went from broken hearted to ecstatic in the blink of an eye!lol. 'If any one has not the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.' Rom 8:9