Are Coulottes "Spiritual"?

[Headcoveredlady]

Good post Timothy! I agree that without TV it is much easier for children to learn about the Lord. That is another thread though, I guess.

I asked one of my children today if they have fun. The child said, "Yes." I asked, "When?" She answered, "When I bake with momma." Thank you all for this discussion. I was so happy to hear that from my daughter today.

The point I was trying to make though is that it seemed as if some here were elevating pleasure above the need for modesty. That to me is wrong.

Pleasure is in it's place, but we are not to love pleasure. I am training my children to face the un-Christian world we live in. And glorifying pleasure will not help me in that goal.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

The point I was trying to make though is that it seemed as if some here were elevating pleasure above the need for modesty.

What I was trying to point out is there is pleasure to be enjoyed while remaining modest. Modesty and pleasure are not opposites.

Blessings,
Sue

 

[hsmom3]

I think in the issue of dress, we need to also remember what the Bible says about moderation in all things. I don't see how a loose pair of pants or shorts can be immodest (if the shorts are the appropriate length). It is just like a blouse. Blouses can be worn too tight or they can be loose and modest.

Should we ladies not wear shirts because men wear shirts?

hsmom3

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Jeans were made for men, that is why they have a fly zipper.

Jean commercials show women that are trying to appeal to men's base nature. Have you ever seen a jean commercial with a godly Christian woman teaching Sunday School or baking cookies for her children?

From Vines Dictionary:

The word MODEST means: "Kosmos orderly, well-aranged, decent, modest"

The word APPAREL means: "Katastole: Kata, means down and stole is a loose outer garment."

Duet 22:5 says it is an abomination for a woman to wear men's clothing.

And that is all, I have said all I need to on this subject.

 

[dianetavegia]

Jeans were made for men, that is why they have a fly zipper.

Do you know how many skirts I own that have zippers in the front? Most that I make have zipper fronts.

I can't judge the women on the jean commercials because they don't list their beliefs along with the commercials.....

Diane

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Ahh, I said I would not say anymore. But, I do have to answer this.

Jeans were originally made for men. That is why they have a fly.

I know of many women who would not wear fly skirts because flys are for males.

The manufacturers of jeans know exactly how to sell the jeans. They do not market them to be worn by women to APPEAR godly.

Notice I did not say that the women don't want to be godly. I said not APPEAR godly. They know exactly what they are doing.

Each company markets their items to their target audience. They know why the people use their items.

 

[ColoradoFB]

This thread is giving me the "501 Blues"!

I remember as a kid my sisters' jeans had zippers up the side. Haven't seen that kind for decades.

 

[Gina B]

HCL, I'd have to say I'm glad we women don't have to be strapped up in whalebone corsets anymore!

These were not for modesty. They tightened your waist to appear smaller and pushed your breasts up. They were worn to make the body look appealing to men, and now the modification of it is still worn by most women daily and seen as immodest if NOT worn! Odd, isn't it?
Gina

 

[dianetavegia]

Notice I did not say that the women don't want to be godly. I said not APPEAR godly. They know exactly what they are doing.

I don't think wearing jeans makes a woman not appear godly.

I think wearing dour dresses down to one's knees, hair in a bun, no make-up or jewelry makes a woman appear holier than thou!

Diane

 

[dianetavegia]

I meant to say ankles. LOL!

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

I think wearing dour dresses down to one's knees, hair in a bun, no make-up or jewelry makes a woman appear holier than thou

Diane; where have you been? Dour dresses down to one's knees? They have to come down to the ankles now!

I'm wondering how long it will be before we bring back the 'chastity belt'...

 

[dianetavegia]

I caught that too late to edit, Sue! LOL!

The women in our area also wear dark woolen looking socks under their dresses so their leg skin won't show. Ugly!

Diane

 

[hsmom3]

LOL on the ankles, Diane!

HCL, although I do not agree with you, you've given me a lot to think about and consider.

I guess that's why we are here, huh? I was thinking about the issue of flys being in jeans, being meant for males. The flys are such a small thing to even consider, but then I thought about men would not DARE to wear anything with a little scrap of lace on it. Then I thought about our fore-fathers wearing ruffles on their clothes, when men wouldn't dare do it now. lol So I don't know. I guess that means the Holy Spirit must lead us all. I sure do learn a lot on here! I have heard some ladies would not wear any denim, because of the jeans being originally made for men issue.

hsmom3

 

[Dina]

>>Are Coulottes "Spiritual"?<<

Maybe, I am off base here, but I read the question more as "Do Coulottes make you feel more spritual?"
My answer then would be NO. How can some thing that *I* feel completely ridiculous wearing make me feel more spiritual? Or another way of looking at it: Why is something I am wearing taking the credit/blame for the amount/lack of spiritualness that I feel??
Just for background purposes only: I attended 2 different Christian high schools. Both had uniforms. One was the traditional red or blue skirts for girls, pants for boys, Red, White, or Blue shirts and vests/sweaters for both. Oh, and ties for the boys.
The second high school, the girls wore Navy or khaki skirts with Light blue or white shirts. If it was cold we could wear any color of sweater, and the girls could then wear khaki or navy pants. When we had PE we wore sweats. When we went to state competition for Volleyball, the girls had to wear coulottes, and we had sew "flaps" on them to boot. At state, we wore dresses, BUT, NO open toed shoes. only closed toe pumps were allowed. When not in school, my attire was entirely different as it was for the rest of the students that I went to school with. In the summer, I wore shorts and tank tops/T-shirts. In the winter, Jeans and a sweatshirt/sweater.
I went to a Christian camp every summer, where there was mini-bikes, horses, a pool, a water-slide, mini-golf. canoeing, water balloon fight, and even a HUGE mudfight. We wore what was appropiate for the weather and the activity that we were doing at the time.
I think that what we wear should be "modest" but as there are varying opinions on what modest is, it then becomes a decision of "conscience". If what I am wearing seems inapropiate by your standards, then there are 2 things you need to do. 1. Talk with me. If I am still feeling "right in my conscience" about it then the next step for you to do is 2. Pray. By your praying, God will either convict me on it, or tell you to leave it alone.
I think this is one of those "gray areas" that can interpretted differently by whom is reading it, and what they are convicted of by the Holy Spirit.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
I caught that too late to edit, Sue! LOL!

The women in our area also wear dark woolen looking socks under their dresses so their leg skin won't show. Ugly!

Diane

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 

[dianetavegia]

Ah but Proverbs 31 says:

21 b For all her household is clothed with scarlet (brightly colored clothing).

22 She makes tapestry for herself; Her clothing is fine linen and purple. (Linen / silk is very costly. Purple material was very costly and worn by both harlots and well to do women. It was made purple from the dye made from crushed snails.)

24 She makes linen garments and sells them, And supplies sashes for the merchants.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Proverbs 31:1, "The words of King Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him."

Of course the kings mother would be decked in fine apparel.

1 Timothy 2 is in the New Testament and is a direct command to women.

Sorry, it was hard to resist this one.

 

[dianetavegia]

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Proverbs 31:21 For all her household is clothed with scarlet. 22 She makes tapestry for herself; Her clothing is fine linen and purple.

Compare those two verses..... NOW...

Purple cloth was VERY costly in Biblical times. The color purple was derived from crushed snails.....

PURPLE AND SCARLET: An expensive dye, purple represents wealth and royalty (Judges 8:26; Est 8:15; Dan 5:7, 16, 29; Luke 16:19); for this reason, idols were attired in purple (Jer 10:9). The purple dress of the harlot symbolized Roman imperial rank (Rev 17:4; 18:12, 16). Before his crucifixion, Jesus was robed in purple in mockery of him as "king of the Jews" (Mark 15:17, 20; John 19:2, 5; cf. Matt 27:28, ; "scarlet robe"). Garments of purple suitably clothe a wife of noble character (Prov 31:22).

Linen was a sign of luxury.

LINEN: In Luke 16:19 it is mentioned as a mark of luxury. Heb. shesh; rendered "fine linen" Exodus 25:4; 26:1,31,36, etc. In Proverbs 31:22 it is rendered in Authorized Version "silk," and in Revised Version "fine linen." The word denotes Egyptian linen of peculiar whiteness and fineness (byssus). The finest Indian linen, the finest now made, has in an inch one hundred threads of warp and eighty-four of woof; while the Egyptian had sometimes one hundred and forty in the warp and sixty-four in the woof. This was the usual dress of the Egyptian priest. Pharaoh arrayed Joseph in a dress of linen (Genesis 41:42).

Tapestry was used in many 'ugly' ways.

TAPESTRY: In shrines of male prostitutes where some women did weaving for the goddess Asherah.

Exodus 39:3
Then they hammered out gold sheets and cut {them} into threads to be woven in {with} the blue and the purple and the scarlet {material,} and the fine linen, the work of a skillful workman.


2 Kings 23:7
He also broke down the houses of the {male} cult prostitutes which {were} in the house of the LORD, where the women were weaving tapestry for the Asherah.

So what I see is the same cloth being worn by harlots and women of virtue, male prostitutes, used to adorn idols and to mock Christ.

Seems to me, it's all in the 'wearing' and presentation instead of the cloth, color and cost.

Diane

 

[timothy 1769]

an apparent contradiction. obviously this is not permission to pick and choose, but the verses must be reconciled in some way.

perhaps like this?

22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.

[she makes fine, expensive clothing - why? obviously not to wear herself, for that is clearly prohibited elsewhere]

23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.

[for her husband, a leader of some kind, to wear in the gates to add distinction to his office]

24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.

[and to sell. but what is her clothing?]

25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.

[and here we have the answer].

[ July 09, 2003, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: timothy 1969 ]

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Thank you Timothy, that makes alot of sense.