Are drums any different than guns?

[jaigner]

I don't see all that much difference between 6/8 and 6/4 time. I like waltz music very much, and so I like 3/4--it's easy to lead and sing.. I also like 4/4, and it's also easy to lead and sing. There's also 12/8 and 9/8; I'm not crazy about those.

I've always wondered how song writers decide what time signature to use, and whether to give the 8th, 4th, or half note one beat. I've also noticed how uneducated many song writers these days are with the atrocious grammar they use--especially the excessive use of "ain't", double and even triple negatives in songs.

12/8 and 9/8 aren't all the difficult. They are just compound, with 3 parts to each beat. So 12/8 essentially is four beats each subdivided into 3 parts. 9/8 is the same, just with essentially three beats.

Most lyricists write what they feel is the natural meter and flow of their verse. Most ways of speaking in english wind up as being either duple, triple or quadruple.

 

[Gina B]

I wouldn't say drums are wrong; I just don't like them. Most drummers pound on those things so hard that it's often louder than the rest of the instruments. My favorite instruments are the guitar and piano because I can easily sing with either, but you can't sing to drums alone. I can tolerate them if they're played softly and don't drown out the real musical instruments. I don't consider drums a musical instrument--just a noise maker.

By the way, what have drums got to do with guns? You can't shoot someone with a drum, although the noise might deafen them.

Can't sing to drums? You can if you have a good drummer. And singer. My favorite hymn is "Be Thou my Vision" and I wish I could share the version I have at home, but it isn't online. I'll look for a one on you tube instead. Close enough...check this out and tell me it doesn't humble your heart before Christ and help shape your desire to be more like HIM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EYY...867D8451&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=20

ALL music has the ability to mimic the heart rate. I've known people who, for health reasons, would not listen to music with rhythm paced faster than a heart beat. I myself do this if my heart is acting up. Then again, some people are much more sensitive to music than others. I can tell you that singing a psalm from the Psalms is 1,000 more likely to put me on my knees than a simple reading. On the other hand, there are times that a simple reading hits me like a brick. But for the most part, I learn and grow from music a LOT. The words stick in my head better. They resound in them throughout the day when a passage is sang rather than spoken.

Then again, now that I'm in a church where the pastor doesn't YELL, I learn a lot more. I never did learn by being yelled at. I always thought the preachers who did that hopping around and jumping looked like monkeys. LOL

But yeah...drums. Drums are good. They're an instrument like any other one. Our drummer has electric ones. This is the first time I've seen them. They're awesome, very sound controlled.

In my church before this one, in Oregon, I thoroughly loved that church, but the drums were a normal set and they were overwhelming and too much. Plus it was a very kid-oriented church, and it was always a kid who wanted to play them and they were, of course, were just learning so we had to kinda just try to work the song around the errors and poorly times rhythms. But even with that, you know what? It was children trying to praise God in their own way, trying to be part of the church, part of the worship, and it was a great reminder to us parents that encouraging our children in Christ is a beautiful thing. If a child's attempt to please God ruins our time of praise because it isn't very professional sounding, we need to do a new evaluation of why we attend church.

And most people who oppose drums? The majority of excuses I've heard boiled down to the person being prejudiced against black people. They equate drums with black people. Plain and simple. And they equate black people with heathens. I doubt many would admit it, but in the churches I USED to attend, whenever I became more meshed in and closer to people, that's what it turned out to be.

 

[Alive in Christ]

"I know this was a topic here a year or two, or maybe more ago. Why is music with drums wrong?"

They arent wrong. There is nothing in the world wrong with drums in christian music.

There are some christian dullards who *THINK* drums are wrong, but nobody takes them seriously. We just sort of pity them.

 

[sag38]

We have electronic drums so the sound is controlled at the sound board. No need for a Plexiglas cage or other ways of controlling the sound of a traditional drum set.

 

[John Toppass]

The sound of drums in a church setting drive me bonkers. Otherwise they are ok.

Cheers,

Jim

They don't have far to drive!:laugh::smilewinkgrin:

 

[rbell]

12/8 and 9/8 aren't all the difficult. They are just compound, with 3 parts to each beat. So 12/8 essentially is four beats each subdivided into 3 parts. 9/8 is the same, just with essentially three beats.

Most lyricists write what they feel is the natural meter and flow of their verse. Most ways of speaking in english wind up as being either duple, triple or quadruple.

Anytime I hear something in 12/8 (especially the old hymn "Saved, saved"), I think of old carnival/circus music. Something with a bad organ, and dude in a top hat. Sounds cheesy to me.

Just opinion--nothing spiritual. Carry on.

 

[rbell]

We have electronic drums so the sound is controlled at the sound board. No need for a Plexiglas cage or other ways of controlling the sound of a traditional drum set.

For churches who are concerned about decibels (or anticipate that issue)--whether actual sound level, or just the chance of complaints about it (and yes...I do believe there can be legitimate ones; surprise!) Electronic drums offer a good option.


Pros:

• Absolute sound control from the board. No longer must you amp everything up to overpower loud drums. The mix becomes much easier to manage.
• Great for very live rooms. (tile/concrete/brick/gymnasiums, etc.)
• Multiple kits & sounds.
• (advanced) more MIDI and sequencing capabilities.
• Good for drummers with a very heavy touch.

Cons:

• Usually smaller heads--often tougher to "hit the mark" for beginners or intermediates.
• Not preferred by most drummers...
• Lack the "touch" and "feel" of the real thing. (e.g., playing on the rim or a soft cymbal roll can be tough on these)
• Potential for being damaged...some can be fragile, particularly if too-large sticks are used (we use 5A's on ours, nothing larger).
• For drums with only one output, fine-tuning the EQ can be tough.

Suggestions:

• Never buy without a drummer's input.
• Don't go cheap. Save up and get the more established brand, and the higher-quality models.
• Sometimes, you can maximize your purchase by getting a mid-level unit--and then as items go out, replace them with better quality parts. We bought an old Pintech drum set years ago. Now...only the frame is Pintech; all components are top-of-the-line Roland.
• Don't allow horseplay on the drums. Have the drummer keep his sticks, and don't leave others out. Otherwise, build a budget line item that is called "stupid tax--broken drums again."

Or, if it's too big of a jump, buy a nice set of LP congas and bongos (all 4 with stands should run you under $300) and have a nice time with some acoustic percussion.

And hey...not all churches can or should do this. Some are loving the traditional route, and are honoring God by putting all their efforts into that one style. Good for them. Have at it.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Can't sing to drums? You can if you have a good drummer. And singer.

So you can sing to drums alone without any other instrument? I guess with all my training, voice lessons, music directing lessons, and music study in Bible college, I never was a singer since I cannot sing to drums alone.

 

[Gina B]

So you can sing to drums alone without any other instrument? I guess with all my training, voice lessons, music directing lessons, and music study in Bible college, I never was a singer since I cannot sing to drums alone.

Did you listen to the link I gave? Did you ever try? Can you sing with no music at all?
Do you have low self esteem or did I really say you are not a singer by my saying a good singer can sing with a good drummer? Serious question.

 

[dcorbett]

I have played the drums for thirty years now, studied them in school - even taught them and do play them in my small church. No, there is nothing wrong with them and they can be played correctly in a church setting though I rarely find it is done so.

There's the problem right there, rarely played correctly in a church setting!! My son, an excellent drummer, plays in his praise band at the
evangelical-free church he attends. But they never do anything but those
annoying 7-11 praise hymns, the drummer can't get carried away with those....:laugh:

My preference is NO DRUMS in church. Don't flame me, that's my choice.

 

[menageriekeeper]

LOL, Dcorbett. My perference is no drums in church as well. Not because of the rythyms, or the 7/11 songs or even CCM issue, but simply because if drums are present the music often overpowers everything else. In other words: its just to noisy for my sensitive ears and my migraine children's heads. You won't get any flamin' from me.

 

[rbell]

There's the problem right there, rarely played correctly in a church setting!!

I would assert that when it comes to "correctly," the drums are probably about as "correctly" played as other instruments. But, other instruments aren't as loud from the get-go...thus, it's easier to handle listening to someone who isn't that good. Not trying to be spiritual or theological here...just talking volume and types of sound more than anything.

But they never do anything but those annoying 7-11 praise hymns, the drummer can't get carried away with those....:laugh:

Ah, yes...such as:

Blessed Be the Name of the Lord
C. Wesley
("7-11" repeats in Red)

• Oh, for a thousand tongues to sing,
  (1) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
  The glories of my God and king!
  (2) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
• (3-4, 11-12, 19-20, 27-28) Blessed be the Name, blessed be the Name,
  (5, 13, 21, 29) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
  (6-7, 14-15, 22-23, 30-31) Blessed be the Name, blessed be the Name,
  (8, 16, 24, 32) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
• Jesus! the Name that charms our fears,
  (9) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
  ’Tis music in the sinner’s ears,
  (10) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
• He breaks the pow’r of canceled sin,
  (17) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
  His blood can make the foulest clean,
  (18) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
• I never shall forget that day,
  (25) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!
  When Jesus washed my sins away,
  (26) Blessed be the Name of the Lord!

and:

Psalm 136


1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good.
His love endures forever.
2 Give thanks to the God of gods.
His love endures forever.
3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords:
His love endures forever.
4 to him who alone does great wonders,
His love endures forever.
5 who by his understanding made the heavens,
His love endures forever.
6 who spread out the earth upon the waters,
His love endures forever.
7 who made the great lights—
His love endures forever.
8 the sun to govern the day,
His love endures forever.
9 the moon and stars to govern the night;
His love endures forever.
10 to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt
His love endures forever.
11 and brought Israel out from among them
His love endures forever.
12 with a mighty hand and outstretched arm;
His love endures forever.
13 to him who divided the Red Sea asunder
His love endures forever.
14 and brought Israel through the midst of it,
His love endures forever.
15 but swept Pharaoh and his army into the Red Sea;
His love endures forever.
16 to him who led his people through the desert,
His love endures forever.
17 who struck down great kings,
His love endures forever.
18 and killed mighty kings—
His love endures forever.
19 Sihon king of the Amorites
His love endures forever.
20 and Og king of Bashan—
His love endures forever.
21 and gave their land as an inheritance,
His love endures forever.
22 an inheritance to his servant Israel;
His love endures forever.
23 to the One who remembered us in our low estate
His love endures forever.
24 and freed us from our enemies,
His love endures forever.
25 and who gives food to every creature.
His love endures forever. 26 Give thanks to the God of heaven.
His love endures forever.

hmmm. interesting.

My preference is NO DRUMS in church. Don't flame me, that's my choice.

No flame here. Preference & choice is what makes it interesting. I support your choice & your pursuit of it. It's possible for each of us to have differing preferences; yet God be honored by both.

My son, an excellent drummer, plays in his praise band at the evangelical-free church he attends.

Now all you need to do is work you up a nice electric guitar solo, and you'll be ready!

 

[billreber]

First, I am not a pastor, musician, or worship team member in my church.

Second, I just have one scripture passage to share with you:

"1. Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in the firmament of his power.
2. Praise him for his mighty acts; praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3. Praise him with the sound of the trumpet; praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4. Praise him with the timbrel and dance; praise him with stringed instruments and flutes.
5. Praise him upon the loud cymbals; praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6. Let everything that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord."

Psalm 150, KJV

Thanks be to God that He does not limit us to which instruments we can use to praise Him! Here I see trumpets (or maybe the shofar), the psaltery (maybe a guitar or a harp), the harp, the timbrel (a tambourine?), stringed instruments (no specific definition of which style here!), flutes (or organs), loud cymbals (percussion instruments, if I understand correctly), and high sounding cymbals! In addition, verse 4 says we should DANCE! PLEASE NOTE: My added possibilities in this paragraph are from notes by Scofield in my 1967 version of the New Scofield Reference Bible.

After I first read this thread a couple of days ago, I decided I would wait to respond until after today's worship time at my church. Our worship team uses two guitars, a keyboard (not mentioned in Psalm 150, BTW), and drums. The instruments are used together to enhance the worship time, but without any over-bearing sound levels by any one of them. And our congregants usually out-sing the instruments anyway! (So far, no dancing in the sanctuary, but why not?)

One man in our church voiced a complaint to me a few weeks ago about the use of drums in the worship time. The beat used that particular day reminded him of the music he used to enjoy BEFORE he became a Christian. It was also just in one particular song that was best played with that beat! He still attends our church, and he sings with the rest of us.

One of my favorite songs that I have heard lately is "Jesus Saves" as sung by Travis Cottrell. It uses drums (as well as other instruments) quite well to better the singing and my enjoyment of the song. Check it out at

http://www.myspace.com/traviscottrellministries

Bill :godisgood:

 

[Johnathon E]

There is nothing wrong with someone choosing to worship with one instrument over another or no instruments at all. That is something best left up to the individual and the local congregation.

As with anything to do with worship, the important fact is where your heart lies. I would much rather listen to a first year beginner on any instrument that was playing with a heart of worship and to glorify God, than to listen to a professional who is just showing off to bring glory to themselves.

We recently hosted a local southern gospel group for a 5th Sunday singing. They were great but their regular bass player wasn't available so they hired a sub to play with them that night. He was good but he made multiple comments about "being paid" and "I'm just doing this for the money" that took away from the whole performance.

Again, it's where your heart is.

 

[ccrobinson]

I would much rather listen to a first year beginner on any instrument that was playing with a heart of worship and to glorify God, than to listen to a professional who is just showing off to bring glory to themselves.

Amen, brother.

 

[thegospelgeek]

I would much rather listen to a first year beginner on any instrument that was playing with a heart of worship and to glorify God, than to listen to a professional who is just showing off to bring glory to themselves.

Obviously you haven't heard me play guitar. It's really bad.:laugh:

But I only play in my bedroom for my personal worship. Had it a church once or twice.

 

[dcorbett]

LOL, Dcorbett. My perference is no drums in church as well. Not because of the rythyms, or the 7/11 songs or even CCM issue, but simply because if drums are present the music often overpowers everything else. In other words: its just to noisy for my sensitive ears and my migraine children's heads. You won't get any flamin' from me.

VERY valid point, my dear....the musical instruments should never overpower the message of the song!

 

[dcorbett]

We recently hosted a local southern gospel group for a 5th Sunday singing. They were great but their regular bass player wasn't available so they hired a sub to play with them that night. He was good but he made multiple comments about "being paid" and "I'm just doing this for the money" that took away from the whole performance.

Again, it's where your heart is.

AMEN! Next time, call my hubby...he is an excellent bass player, and he plays for the glory of God, not money! (We gave up playing in bands when we rededicated our lives to Christ)