Right, Silverhair. The gift in Ephesians 2:8-10 is the same gift as in Romans 6:23.
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Are forms other than Calvinism & Arminanism debate form to be C & A debate?
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Right, Silverhair. The gift in Ephesians 2:8-10 is the same gift as in Romans 6:23.
Perhaps read verse 22!?
*Romans 6:22-23*
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Who sets us free and gave us the gift of eternal life?
Who gives us the gift of faith?
Or...did you manufacture your own faith that caused God to save you?
I already have on multiple occasions and you just keep rejecting what God has said.
The funny thing is that you have never once explained your assertions with a Bible passage. Instead, you cherry pick sentences.
Now, let's look:
*Ephesians 1:1-14*
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, [Paul is an Apostle. He is an Apostle by God's will.]
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:
[the letter is to believers living in Ephesus who are faithful]
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[Unmerited favor and peace are from God who is our Father and from King Jesus]
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[Honor is given to God]
who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
[God the Father blessed us (past tense)
In Christ - our blessing is because we are found in Christ, not because of anything we did]
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
[God the Father chose us, not because of what we did, or how great our faith was, but because we are "in" Christ (see Hebrews 9 and the Will...New Covenant).
Being in Christ was seen by God, before he set the foundation of the world.
We were chosen by God before creation.]
that we should be holy and blameless before him.
[He chose us in Christ so that we, as humans, would be set apart and blameless before God.
We cannot be blameless and set apart unless we are in Christ Jesus.]
In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
[Because God loves Jesus and we are in Christ, we were predestined to be adopted and receive the inheritance as his children (see Hebrews 9).
The predestination is God's will.
It brings praise to God because of His amazing grace.
It is His glorious grace that blessed us in Christ.]
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses,
[In Christ we (present tense) have been redeemed.
We were redeemed by the atoning, ransomed, blood of Jesus, in whom we are found.
By being in Christ we are forgiven our sins.]
according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will,
[This has happened by God's grace, which he chose to abundantly give to us, according to God's wisdom and understanding.
God makes this mystery of his will (see Hebrews 9) known to us, His children, who receive the inheritance.]
according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
[God's purpose was set before the foundation of the world and comes to be in the fullness of time.
God unites us all in Christ and He unites his creation in Christ.]
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
[In Christ we have (present tense) obtained an inheritance (see Hebrews 9).
In Christ we have been (past tense) predestined.
This happened according to the Will (see Hebrews 9).
This happened because it brings praise to God.]
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
[In Christ, we were sealed (the mark expressed in Revelation 7) with the promised Holy Spirit.
We were sealed by God when we heard and believed the good news that we were (past tense) saved. (This was because it was predestined.)
We will take hold of this inheritance when we enter heaven.
We will give praise to God because all this is because of His amazing grace.]
There you go, Sliverhair.
God gets all the glory.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I think we get that Grace is not of ourselves.
Romans 11:6, KJV: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Is Faith a work, then? What is it, if it is not a gift, along with "by Grace are you Saved"? And inseparable from the gift of Repentance? What is it?
Since we are in Ephesians 2 and you have separated "through Faith" out, away from "For by Grace you are Saved" and "it is the gift of God", where did it go and what do you do with "dead in trespasses and sins", in verse 1 & 4,5?
"4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses.
It is by grace you have been saved!"
You've got your "by grace you have been saved" and
"God, ... made us alive", as in "you hath He Quickened",
what about the "dead in trespasses and sins" and "we were dead in our trespasses"? Do you see that as a lost soul being Spiritually dead? With no Spiritual Agency to have "faith", without it being a gift from God?
Do you believe "The condition of salvation is repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is brought about in the individual by the Spirit through the Word?"
That "nobody will turn to Christ unless the Spirit draws him (John 6:44). Knowing this, God elected some to be saved, and He draws them to the Saviour by the hearing of the Word and the work of the Spirit?"
Since nobody will of his own accord turn to God (and God always knew this), the Spirit takes the Word and "cuts to the heart" those whom God has chosen, and through the pull of that Word - that is, by giving it light and meaning which the Spirit alone can give - He draws (not drives) the elect to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 22:14; II Timothy 1:9; Acts 2:39; John 6:44)?
I was wondering what you do about the "dead in trespasses and sins" and "we were dead in our trespasses"?
What does "dead" mean to you?
Romans 11:6, KJV: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."
Is Faith a work, then? What is it, if it is not a gift, along with "by Grace are you Saved"? And inseparable from the gift of Repentance? What is it?
Since we are in Ephesians 2 and you have separated "through Faith" out, away from "For by Grace you are Saved" and "it is the gift of God", where did it go and what do you do with "dead in trespasses and sins", in verse 1 & 4,5?
"4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses.
It is by grace you have been saved!"
You've got your "by grace you have been saved" and
"God, ... made us alive", as in "you hath He Quickened",
what about the "dead in trespasses and sins" and "we were dead in our trespasses"? Do you see that as a lost soul being Spiritually dead? With no Spiritual Agency to have "faith", without it being a gift from God?
Do you believe "The condition of salvation is repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and this is brought about in the individual by the Spirit through the Word?"
That "nobody will turn to Christ unless the Spirit draws him (John 6:44). Knowing this, God elected some to be saved, and He draws them to the Saviour by the hearing of the Word and the work of the Spirit?"
Since nobody will of his own accord turn to God (and God always knew this), the Spirit takes the Word and "cuts to the heart" those whom God has chosen, and through the pull of that Word - that is, by giving it light and meaning which the Spirit alone can give - He draws (not drives) the elect to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 22:14; II Timothy 1:9; Acts 2:39; John 6:44)?
I was wondering what you do about the "dead in trespasses and sins" and "we were dead in our trespasses"?
What does "dead" mean to you?
How about "Us vs Them"?“Particular Baptist Theology vs Believe Whatever Tickles Your Ears”
As I say? As I say? As I say?
Does God tell us to believe in Him? John 3:16, John 6:29
Does God tell us salvation does not depend of the person who wills to be saved, but upon God? Romans 9:16
Does Paul speak as to men of flesh using spiritual milk? 1 Corinthians 3:1-3
Does God credit the faith of some and then bestow gracious benefits? Romans 4:23-25
Does Calvinism deny all these doctrines? Go figure
Calvinists know that "faith" is not the noun being referenced with "and that is not of yourselves." They know the Greek grammar precludes that interpretation. But they make the claim because they cannot stick to truth and defend their false doctrines.
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