Are God's Commandments impossible to Keep?

[saved by grace]

=Amy.G;1730580]Maybe you should read ALL of Paul's writings.

I have

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Paul is admitting that he had a sinful nature but that doesn't mean he went around committing adultery, fornication, lying, stealing etc. Paul clearly said that keeping the commandments is what counts and he warned the Christians in Corinth and Galatia that certain sins would keep Christians from inheriting the kingdom of God.

I guess you think Paul wasn't saved.

Ye I believe Paul was saved but he didn't believe in absolute assurance of salvation. He knew that he could lose his inheritance in the Kingdom of God just like we all can.

1 Cor. 4:4-5 "I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me.Therefore do not pronouncement judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his comendation from God."

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, Paul was not talking about himself after salvation. He kept the law prior to salvation (he said he was blameless)
Phl. 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
So now are you saying that once he got saved he turned to sinning? No sister that did not happen. He kept the law while under the law so he was not now practicing sin after salvation when he had the Spirit.
Also we know this;
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The commandments can be kept we just choose to break them. All sin is a willful choice.

Paul was talking about the 2 natures that we have, even as saved individuals. We still live in sinful flesh and still have a sin nature in addition to the the new spirit that God gives us at salvation. The flesh will win out sometimes because it's desires are strong. As long as the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, we will be tempted and we will fail to resist sometimes.

Yes, sin is willful. We make the choice to do it, but like Jesus said "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak".

Paul was not perfect and sinless, not before conversion nor after, for even the thought life is brought under judgment, not just our deeds.

Our flesh is corrupted and will continue to sin until the day it is changed into an incorruptible and glorious body like that of Christ.

 

[saved by grace]

=convicted1;1730481]I do not know if what FAL states is Pelagianism or not, but if you think he will buy what you selling, good luck! A saved person still has to contend with their flesh. Apostle Paul stated that in the flesh dwelleth no good thing, so we can not keep the commandments

.
Of course we can by God's grace! If it is impossible how can the Word of God say about Elizabeth and Zechariah "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" Luke 1:6

Now, when we disobey God, we have an Advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus the Lord, Who pleads our case to the Father!! We are now under the Grace Covenant, and not under the Law.

Yes, under grace where there is forgiveness and not under the law of Torah where there was no forgiveness

I do not need God's Grace every day, I need It every second of my life!!! I need it when I wake up, I need it when I go to sleep. I need it when I am on the road, but most of all I need it when He calls me out of this world!!

Amen! And that is how one can keep the commandments by grace. Faith without keeping the commandments is a dead faith not a saving faith. You cannot enter heaven with a dead faith. If you simply let God's grace work in you, then you can keep the commandments and reject sin.

 

[Amy.G]

Paul is admitting that he had a sinful nature but that doesn't mean he went around committing adultery, fornication, lying, stealing etc. Paul clearly said that keeping the commandments is what counts and he warned the Christians in Corinth and Galatia that certain sins would keep Christians from inheriting the kingdom of God.

Are you Catholic? Mortal and venial sins?

There is NO sin that keep a Christian from inheriting God's kingdom for we are already in it.


Paul didn't go around committing adultery, ect and neither do I, but I do have impure thoughts, unrighteous anger, ect. What you are talking about is the same thing Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for....washing the outside of the cup but ignoring what was on the inside.
He called them white washed tombs. Oh they were pretty and kept the Law, but inside they were dead sinners. It' not just about outward obedience but bringing EVERY thought captive unto Christ. No man has ever done that except Jesus.

 

[JesusFan]

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Of course we can by God's grace! If it is impossible how can the Word of God say about Elizabeth and Zechariah "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless" Luke 1:6


Yes, under grace where there is forgiveness and not under the law of Torah where there was no forgiveness



Amen! And that is how one can keep the commandments by grace. Faith without keeping the commandments is a dead faith not a saving faith. You cannot enter heaven with a dead faith. If you simply let God's grace work in you, then you can keep the commandments and reject sin.

the bible clearly states thast NNE was EVER justified before God by Keeping the Law, in that we were ALL sinners and were not able to fulfill/keep the Law as God demanded it to be!

NT believer ever kept the law fully, and what would have enabled/made them acceptable to God was their faith in god and in His promises on coming Messiah, as Abraham was!

No OT believers had even means to keep the law being sinners, so the Law was NOT given in order to save us!

the NT saint much better off under the new Covenant, as we have what the OT believer did not, namely the HS of promise enabling us to live forr God...

We indeed keep and obey the moral commands of God, but NOT by focusing and having a wriiten law, but by the power of the HS in us, as we submit to Christ daily!

 

[saved by grace]

=Amy.G;1730649]Are you Catholic?

Not yet but I am looking into it.

Mortal and venial sins?

Absolutely. Scripture is clear that not all sin is deadly

There is NO sin that keep a Christian from inheriting God's kingdom for we are already in it.

Really? You could murder someone without confessing or repenting and still inherit the kingdom of God?

That's not what scriputure says. Paul says to "saved" Christians "Now the works of the flesh are plain: Immorality, impurity, licentiousness, ....I warn you as I have warned you before that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. " Galatians 5:19
How do you explain Paul's warning?

IN 1 Cor 6: 9 Paul say the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. he then lists sins that the unrighteous committ: "Immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, etc." If you commit one of those sin you are unrighteous and born again Christians are not exempt.

He then warns these Corinthians who were "sanctified and justfied " ( 1 Cor. 6:11) that they could fall into the sin of idolatry just like the Jews and they too could fall. (1 Cor.l 9:6-12)
Can you inherit the kingdom of God if you fall into idolatry?

Paul didn't go around committing adultery, ect and neither do I, but I do have impure thoughts, unrighteous anger, ect. What you are talking about is the same thing Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for....washing the outside of the cup but ignoring what was on the inside.
He called them white washed tombs. Oh they were pretty and kept the Law, but inside they were dead sinners. It' not just about outward obedience but bringing EVERY thought captive unto Christ. No man has ever done that except Jesus.

You're right it's not about "Outward obedience." You're contradicting yourself. Jesus is speaking to you. You are ignoring the fact that you are inwardly disobedient just like the Pharisees. You admit you have impure thoughts and anger. You don't have to be. God's grace can rid you of those thoughts and that anger.

 

[saved by grace]

=JesusFan;1730664]the bible clearly states thast NNE was EVER justified before God by Keeping the Law, in that we were ALL sinners and were not able to fulfill/keep the Law as God demanded it to be!

How do you explain 1 Luke 5-6? Elizabeth and Zachariah were "both righteous before God." It says before God not before men. That scripture also says they were "walking in all the commandments...blameless"

Remember all scripture is inspired and useful for teaching.

NT believer ever kept the law fully, and what would have enabled/made them acceptable to God was their faith in god and in His promises on coming Messiah, as Abraham was!

How do you explain 1 Luke??

No OT believers had even means to keep the law being sinners, so the Law was NOT given in order to save us!

Grace was given in order to save us.

the NT saint much better off under the new Covenant, as we have what the OT believer did not, namely the HS of promise enabling us to live forr God...

Even the Old Testament saints had access to God's grace.

We indeed keep and obey the moral commands of God, but NOT by focusing and having a wriiten law, but by the power of the HS in us, as we submit to Christ daily!

Amen! We keep the commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit. Therefore if you are NOT keeping the commandments you are rejecting the power of the Holy Spirit and you need to consider that you might not be saved. You might have deceived yourself and just think you are saved.

 

[JesusFan]

!

We are not under the law of Torah. We are under the law of grace where there is forgiveness. THere was no forgiveness under the law of Torah

We are under the new Covenant of God, under the grace provided by the Cross of Christ...

As peter said, how we expect Gentiles to obey the law as a requirement/means to God, when we jews ourselves could not keep it?

Christ fulfilled the law by giving us the gift of grace. He didn't abolish it.

fulfilled it. kept it perfectly, so NO longer the need before God to have us keep it in order to have salvation/relationship with God!

Jesus was asked "what must I do to have eternal life." Jesus said "keep the commandments." Because we are under the law of grace and not the law of Torah, we can be forgiven for not "perfectly" keeping the moral law that Jesus gives us in Matthew 19:18-19 and Paul gives us in Galatians 5:19 and I Cor. 6:9-10.
If we do fall we must confess and repent

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jesus was still speaking under effects of the old Covenant here, and His message was NOT keep the law to be saved/approved byGod, but used the perfection required by the law to show that man he was a sinner in need of the Grace of God!

If you still sin and are giving in to your sinful nature then you are NOT saved. You just think you are. You have deceived yourself.

Actually, per the Apostle John though, IF one says they have NO sin, they deceive themselves and the truth is not in us!

Also, John expected SAVED persons to still fall at times into sinning, and gave us the means to be restored back, confession and repentence!

That is exactly what Paul is saying "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

describes unsaved/fallen persons, still spiritually dead in their sin natures...

Keeping the commandments is a "work" of God's grace. Faith without works of grace is dead. ( James 2:17) You are not saved with a dead faith. If you "can't " keep the commandments then you do not have saving faith and you will stand before God at your judgment and He will say " I never knew you."

you seem to be stating that what saves us and keeps us saved before God is our works of keeping the law, but ONLY the cross of Christ and Grace can do that!

 

[saved by grace]

you seem to be stating that what saves us and keeps us saved before God is our works of keeping the law, but ONLY the cross of Christ and Grace can do that!

What saves us is God' grace.
But if one is NOT keeping the commandments then he is rejecting God's grace. How can one claim to be saved if they are rejecting God's grace?

 

[Amy.G]

Not yet but I am looking into it.


Absolutely. Scripture is clear that not all sin is deadly


Really? You could murder someone without confessing or repenting and still inherit the kingdom of God?

That's not what scriputure says. Paul says to "saved" Christians "Now the works of the flesh are plain: Immorality, impurity, licentiousness, ....I warn you as I have warned you before that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. " Galatians 5:19
How do you explain Paul's warning?

IN 1 Cor 6: 9 Paul say the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. he then lists sins that the unrighteous committ: "Immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, etc." If you commit one of those sin you are unrighteous and born again Christians are not exempt.

He then warns these Corinthians who were "sanctified and justfied " ( 1 Cor. 6:11) that they could fall into the sin of idolatry just like the Jews and they too could fall. (1 Cor.l 9:6-12)
Can you inherit the kingdom of God if you fall into idolatry?




You're right it's not about "Outward obedience." You're contradicting yourself. Jesus is speaking to you. You are ignoring the fact that you are inwardly disobedient just like the Pharisees. You admit you have impure thoughts and anger. You don't have to be. God's grace can rid you of those thoughts and that anger.

Your error here is that you are not righteous because of what you do, but because of who you are.

Who am I?
I am a born again child of the living God because I placed my faith in Jesus Christ. I was saved the same way as the OT saints, by grace through faith. Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

THANK YOU :jesus:


Your desire to be Catholic is very transparent. What a huge mistake that will be.

 

[saved by grace]

=Amy.G;1730679]Your error here is that you are not righteous because of what you do, but because of who you are.

Amy, Scripture disagrees: "He who does right is righteous" 1 John 3:7

Who am I?
I am a born again child of the living God because I placed my faith in Jesus Christ. I was saved the same way as the OT saints, by grace through faith. Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

THANK YOU :jesus:

But you must have a saving faith to inherit the kingdom of God. Abraham didn't just "believe." He also obeyed God.

Faith without keeping the commandments is a dead faith.
Works must accompany a saving faith. Anything we do by God's grace is a "work". If you can't keep the commandments then how can one say they still have a saving faith?
Baptist theologian Robert Shank clearly shows in his book Life in the Son how our salvation is "conditional." Every tree that does not bear good fruit is thrown into the fire.
Too many deceive themselves and think they are "saved' just because they "believe." Even the demons believe ( James 2:19) What did the demons lack? Love and obedience which are marks of a saving faith.

Your desire to be Catholic is very transparent. What a huge mistake that will be.

I'm going to go to their RCIA program so I can better understand what they teach. I think their interpretation of scripture is correct. I can't find any weakness.

 

[JesusFan]

How do you explain 1 Luke 5-6? Elizabeth and Zachariah were "both righteous before God." It says before God not before men. That scripture also says they were "walking in all the commandments...blameless"

then God is a liar, as He CLEARLY stated that NONE were ever justified/saved by keeping the Law, as NONE were able to keep it!

Remember all scripture is inspired and useful for teaching

.

You would do well to heed that advice!


How do you explain 1 Luke??

Grace was given in order to save us.

Actually it was the death of Jesus on the Cross!

Even the Old Testament saints had access to God's grace.

NOT the same way though that we have it now! We under the new Covenant have direct access to God, have the HS dwelling in us, and have the full Canon of God!

NONE available to the OT believer!



Amen! We keep the commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore if you are NOT keeping the commandments you are rejecting the power of the Holy Spirit and you need to consider that you might not be saved. You might have deceived yourself and just think you are saved.

saved by Grace of god, kept by the power of God, and we will always have the :"free choice" as a believer in Christ to either submit to the flesh/sin principle still in me, or to submit to the HS and have enabling to live for God in His strenght...

NONE of the Apostles, nor Jesus, know of this "sinless perfection" being attainable in this life!

 

[saved by grace]

=JesusFan;1730689]
then God is a liar, as He CLEARLY stated that NONE were ever justified/saved by keeping the Law, as NONE were able to keep it

God isn't a liar. It is your interpretation of God's word that is wrong.

Elizabeth and Zachariah were "both righteous before God." It says before God not before men. That scripture also says they were "walking in all the commandments...blameless"

Actually it was the death of Jesus on the Cross!

Of course it was through Christ's death that we have access to His grace but His grace is not limited by time and space. Noah received God's grace.

NOT the same way though that we have it now! We under the new Covenant have direct access to God, have the HS dwelling in us, and have the full Canon of God! NONE available to the OT believer!

Genesis 6:8 King James translation “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”

Genesis 6:9 “Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation.”

Enoch walked with God and went bodily to heaven.

One can only be righteous and blameless by God's grace NOT by his own natural power.

saved by Grace of God, kept by the power of God, and we will always have the :"free choice" as a believer in Christ to either submit to the flesh/sin principle still in me, or to submit to the HS and have enabling to live for God in His strenght...

And what if you abuse that free will? Are you telling me you could commit adultery, not confess and repent and STILL be saved?

NONE of the Apostles, nor Jesus, know of this "sinless perfection" being attainable in this life!

Who's talking about "perfection?" Righteous and blameless doesn't have to mean one is perfect. It means that not all sin is the same. Some sins are deadly and some sins are not. All sins against one of the commandments is deadly but stealing $10 from your neighbor is not the same sin as killing your neighbor. There are degrees of sin.

John 19:11 " Jesus answered....he who has delivered me to you has the greater sin."

 

[convicted1]

Matthew 19:16-22

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

This man came to Jesus, Jesus told him what He must do, and Jesus named off six of the commandments. But, when he told Him that he had kept these from his youth up, and what did he lack, Jesus put his feet to the fire, and he failed the test miserably. Jesus told him to sell his possession and distribute it amongst the poor, and pick up his cross and follow Him. When he walked away sorrowful, he broke the very first commandment, because he put his worldly goods before God, showing that his possessions were his god.

 

[convicted1]

I have read at least one post in this thread about Apostle Paul, and they used this verse for their proof:

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

And yet, he needed this to happen to him to bring him into Christ:

Acts 9
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

 

[Aaron]

Yet Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12.30). Do any of us dare claim that we have kept that one, or even that we could keep it?

And the same John who wrote the words you quoted about keeping God's commandments also wrote in 1 John 1.8:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

I dare say there are some here who would boast that they love God in that manner.

 

[Aaron]

Amy, Scripture disagrees: "He who does right is righteous" 1 John 3:7


But you must have a saving faith to inherit the kingdom of God. Abraham didn't just "believe." He also obeyed God.

Faith without keeping the commandments is a dead faith.
Works must accompany a saving faith. Anything we do by God's grace is a "work". If you can't keep the commandments then how can one say they still have a saving faith?
Baptist theologian Robert Shank clearly shows in his book Life in the Son how our salvation is "conditional." Every tree that does not bear good fruit is thrown into the fire.
Too many deceive themselves and think they are "saved' just because they "believe." Even the demons believe ( James 2:19) What did the demons lack? Love and obedience which are marks of a saving faith.


I'm going to go to their RCIA program so I can better understand what they teach. I think their interpretation of scripture is correct. I can't find any weakness.

Take Scandal with you. You and he sound just alike.

The Scriptures are clear. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. It's not that Abraham believed AND added something. It's that Abraham believed.

We are righteous through Christ, just as Abraham. God loves us through Christ. God forgives us through Christ. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe.

To answer your injustice to the text of James: James does not say that one must add works to his faith. He is saying works are an evidence of one's faith, just as smoke is evidence of fire. And they will be works of love, as in giving bread and the means of warmth to one who is destitute.

What demons know, they know by sight, not by faith. And Christ came not in the likeness of angels, but in the likeness of the sons of Abraham. In otherwords, salvation is not offered to demons. Demons know God. They know what judgment awaits them, and they tremble. What James is saying is not a commentary on Demons, or on belief. It's a commentary on the false claims of men who presume to have faith when they have none. "You say you believe in God? Okay. Why ain't you tremblin'?"

 

[JesusFan]

God isn't a liar. It is your interpretation of God's word that is wrong.

Elizabeth and Zachariah were "both righteous before God." It says before God not before men. That scripture also says they were "walking in all the commandments...blameless"

The ONLY way they could claim that was IF they were without sin, and NONE other than Jesus can claim that!

Of course it was through Christ's death that we have access to His grace but His grace is not limited by time and space. Noah received God's grace.

NOT the HS as we do, NOT part of the "new and better" new Covenant...

Genesis 6:8 King James translation “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”

Genesis 6:9 “Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation.”

Enoch walked with God and went bodily to heaven.

One can only be righteous and blameless by God's grace NOT by his own natural power.

Again, NONE of the OT believers had the HS now as we ALL do, indwelling them, and NONE of them were from God standard "holy/Blamesless", just in regards to their fellow man they stood out as being 'serving the Lord"

And what if you abuse that free will? Are you telling me you could commit adultery, not confess and repent and STILL be saved

?


NOT recommended not approved by God to do, BUT

Saved by grace of God, kept by God, so would still be saved reagrdless of the sin commited, BUT would face chaistisment,loss of fellowship unttil confessed/repented of, and might evn face death by God calling us home!

Who's talking about "perfection?" Righteous and blameless doesn't have to mean one is perfect. It means that not all sin is the same. Some sins are deadly and some sins are not. All sins against one of the commandments is deadly but stealing $10 from your neighbor is not the same sin as killing your neighbor. There are degrees of sin.

to God though...

ALL sin is sin in the sense of being commited in His Holy presense, but NOT all have same results/

John 19:11 " Jesus answered....he who has delivered me to you has the greater sin."

Think that you err in not realising that the old Covenant could NOTprovide for them as the new Covenant does for us today, and that the terms for people being called holy/blameles etc do nOT refer to them as nbeing as such in comparision to standard of the Law, just as compared to those around them, they stood for God!