Are laymembers permitted to teach in the assembly?

Being a Pastor is a seperate gift from being a teacher.

The word Pastor comes up once in the New Testament (Eph 4:11), its translation in Strongs Concordance is - 4166 poimen, a Shepherd.

The word Teacher comes up several times, its translation is 1320 - an Instructor.

There is an office of a local church Overseer, it is given to the Bishop 1Ti 3:1. its translation is 1985 - A Superintendant in general charge of the local church.

To suggest that the Pastor in Eph 4:11 is the Teacher and ruler of the Pulpit is in no way supported by scripture. That role is in the care of the Bishop.

 

Hello.
I believe that the topic gets confusing because when one thinks of a spiritual teacher, one begins to think that this teacher will provide some new insight or something.
But the actual reality is that a teacher of the Gospel is teaching from the treasure already established by Jesus Christ.
Therefore, the teacher, the gift that is provided to human beings as it says in Eph 4:8, is from God. These teachers, in a way just like prophets, are messengers of God's Word.

For example, when Jesus went to Samaria and was by the well speaking to the woman at the well...
Who was the messenger of God's Word to that town?
Was it the disciples? Did they go and evangelize when they went into town to buy food?
Did they witness? Did they bring back anyone?
Did they bring back a good report of anything?
Or did the woman?
And since a prophet is a messenger, could she have been? Since she was sent by God?

In the same way, the teacher...is she/he sending the message of Jesus forth? Could these teachers be in the congregation? Or are they only at the pulpit? Hummmm. I believe that their very lives preach and teach, and they may never be invited into the pulpit, but some teach more than anyone could ever do, especially those who were martyred or paid a big price by their loving actions. Do these people teach the Gospel?

Should they teach in the assembly? Why woman and men do it all the time, usually taking the place of those who left a void. Someone has to do it.

True messengers of the Gospel are in various places I believe, and they will teach everywhere they go. Should they be allowed? They don't need a pulpit if God does not supply it for them.
God put them where they should be.

Who is the Apostle, Prophet, Teacher, etc.? Are they not given by God? Can one stop them?
I feel sorry for those who try.

 

Let me ask this in relation to Frogman's question: If you believe that the qualifications of I Tim. 3 are qualifications for a pastor, and if you believe that the pastor's role in the church is a teaching role, then do you require anyone else who teaches in the church to meet the same qualifications (regardless of however you may interpret those qualifications)?

 

This is incorrect, scripturally speaking. Acts 20 and 1 Peter 5 both indicate unequivocally that the office of overseer, pastor, and elder are the same office, the same person. The pastor teacher of 1 Tim 4:11 is the overseer. The overseer of 1 Tim 3 is to be able to teach ... Why?? Because that is his job.

 

Not necessarily, because the qualifications are not given for "everyone else who teaches in the church." For instance, a lady cannot meet those qualifications, but she can certainly be gifted for teaching. To use an analogy, every dog is an animal; every animal is not a dog. So every pastor is teacher; every teacher is not a pastor, and therefore does not necessarily have to meet the pastoral qualifications.

 

Pastor Larry,

I think that I have set a reasonable post above with the Strongs translation. It is all very well to suggest that a chaper alludes to the point that you are attempting to make. Yet I think that it is reasonable to ask you to quote the specific verse that states that the Pastor and the Bishop are the one and the same thing. For the translation of each as proven above is quite different. Hence it can not be the case unless you can provide a specific verse of scripture that says that it is.

 

The Greek words used are certainly different for each -cp Eph 4:11-12 and 1 Tim 3 - poimen vs episkopos . Why would Paul/ the Holy Spirit use different terms if they meant the same thing?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

The reason I didn't post the verse is because this is basic baptist polity. I would have thought that anyone posting in the baptist only sections would be familiar with this.

I will answer both you and Matt at the same time. The words are different to be sure, but that is because the NT encompasses different roles.

Acts 20:17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church ... (28) "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Here, Paul's instruction to the NT church is that the elders are overseers who are to pastor (translated here "shepherd," the word is poimano).

1 Peter 5:1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

Here Peter instructs the NT that the elders are to shepherd (pastor; poimano) by exercising oversight.

So we see that the three words (elder, overseer or bishop, pastor or shepherd) are all used to refer to the same office in the church. The office is traditionally called "Pastor" in our baptist churches. The pastor is the elder who is to oversee and pastor the flock. The NT places all three roles in the same person in the NT church.

 

They don't mean the same thing. I don't believe I said they did. I said they referred to the same office in the church. Just as a man can be both a husband and a father (different roles in the same context of family), or just as a father can be a disciplinarian and someone who plays catch with his son, so the pastor in teh church has different roles.

 

I've read repeatedly that the Greek grammar indicates essentially that the verse refers to one office, "pastors and teachers," which could also be phrased in English as "pastor-teachers."

In the NT, a bishop is an elder is a pastor. The normal NT pattern, as indicated by James 5 and elsewhere, is for each congregation to have a plural eldership. We also know from history that the early church patterned its polity after first-century synagogues, and synagogues were typically run by seven men of good reputation, three of whom were styled "elders." It's also been said that the term "elder" was used more frequently in Jewish churches and "bishop" in Gentile churches--but it's interesting that modern churches seem to prefer "pastor."

[ October 17, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Taufgesinnter ]

 

They don't mean the same thing. I don't believe I said they did. I said they referred to the same office in the church. Just as a man can be both a husband and a father (different roles in the same context of family), or just as a father can be a disciplinarian and someone who plays catch with his son, so the pastor in teh church has different roles. </font>[/QUOTE]OK, why the same office then?

And, Taufgesinnter, whilst I agree with the historical analysis of your last paragraph, I believe you run up against the same textual-linguistic problem by conflating NT terms. OK, I'll give you the conflation of pastor-teacher as the Greek grammar in Eph 4:11 is a tad ambiguous, but presbuteros does not mean the same as didaskolos - again, I ask, why the different words if we are talking about the same office?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Titus 1:5-7 also has a good example of Paul using "bishop" and "elder" interchangeably:

 

Because it is the way God set up the church. The church does not have multiple heads, one for overseeing, one for teaching, one for this, one for that. There is one office in the church that is the office of the leader. That office is responsible. Period.

Because of different functions of that same office.