Are musical styles amoral?

[Jordan Kurecki]

What do you think?

Do musical styles carry morals with them?

Does the music itself communicate a message without lyrics?

Should we use musical styles that are meant to communicate sin and rebellion and use them to try and worship God, or even for personal pleasure?

 

[InTheLight]

What do you think?

Do musical styles carry morals with them?

No.

Does the music itself communicate a message without lyrics?

It can. Music can communicate an emotional response. Relaxation or tension, for example.

Should we use musical styles that are meant to communicate sin and rebellion and use them to try and worship God, or even for personal pleasure?

This type of question is called question begging. You have not established that there are "musical styles that are meant to communicate sin and rebellion", therefore your question is invalid. This type of question is in the style of, "have you stopped beating your wife"?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

This type of question is called question begging. You have not established that there are "musical styles that are meant to communicate sin and rebellion", therefore your question is invalid. This type of question is in the style of, "have you stopped beating your wife"?

Info from wayoflife.org:

The book Rock Facts, which is published by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum in Cleveland, Ohio, admits that rock is not just a type of music, IT IS A LIFESTYLE. “… rock and roll has truly become a universal language … rock and roll also refers to an attitude, a feeling, a style, a way of life…” (Rock Facts, 1996, p. 7).

“…the New Left sprang ... from Elvis’ gyrating pelvis.... Elvis Presley ripped off Ike Eisenhower by turning our uptight young awakening bodies around. Hard animal rock energy beat/surged hot through us, the driving rhythm arousing repressed passions. Music to free the spirit.... Elvis told us to let go!” (Jerry Reuben, Do It!).

“... the whole idea of rock 'n' roll is to offend your parents” (Rock drummer King Coffey, The Truth about Rock, p. 30).

“In a sense all rock is revolutionary. By its very beat and sound it has always implicitly rejected restraints and has celebrated freedom and sexuality” (Time magazine, Jan. 3, 1969).

“Rock music has got the same message as before. It is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality. But now I understand what you have to do. You have to put the message across with a little honey on it” (John Lennon, spoken not long before his death in 1980, Pop Goes the Gospel, p. 84).

“A new music emerged, again completely nonintellectual, with a thumping rhythm and shouting voices, each line and each beat full of the angry insult to all western [Christian] values … their protest is in their music itself as well as in the words, for anyone who thinks that this is all cheap and no more than entertainment has never used his ears” (H.R. Rookmaaker, Modern Art and the Death of a Culture, pp. 188, 189, 190).

Gene Simmons of Kiss said: “What I write is pretty much a belief in a certain lifestyle which is a free soul, a free person, doing basically what he wants to do without hurting anybody else” (WCCO-TV, Five P.M. Report, Feb. 18, 1983).

“Rock is the total celebration of the physical” (Ted Nugent, rock star, Rolling Stone, Aug. 25, 1977, pp. 11-13).

“Rock music is sex. The big beat matches the body’s rhythms” (Frank Zappa of the Mothers of Invention, Life, June 28, 1968).

“Everyone takes it for granted that rock and roll is synonymous with sex” (Chris Stein, rock manager, People, May 21, 1979).

“Rock ‘n’ roll is sex. Real rock ‘n’ roll isn’t based on cerebral thoughts. It’s based on one’s lower nature” (Paul Stanley, cited by John Muncy, The Role of Rock, p. 44).

“Rock ’n’ roll is synonymous with sex and you can’t take that away from it. It just doesn’t work” (Steven Tyler, Entertainment Tonight, ABC, Dec. 10, 1987).

 

[InTheLight]

Funny how when strict Baptists want to make their point they quote depraved sinners...

 

[evenifigoalone]

My statement is pretty much the same as before: music styles are amoral when they can be demonstrably be used for both good and bad

It doesn't matter what nonbelieving rock and roll musicians say. Their opinion doesn't change something that can be clearly demonstrated.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Out of curiosity--is your purpose in these threads to learn more about this subject since you are still not entirely settled on it?
Because if that's not your purpose, I don't want to add to your frustration by shoving opposing viewpoints in your face.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

More from way of life:

“An incessant beat does erode a sense of responsibility in much the same way as alcohol does. ... You feel in the grip of a relentless stream of sound to which something very basic and primitive in the human nature responds” (David Winter, New Singer, New Song).

“[Rock music is as much a] de-conditioner as psychedelic drugs. It is designed to blow your mind and suspend your conditioned reflexes. Listening to a Beatles’ album is an hour of de-conditioning” (Timothy Leary, cited by I.P. Pavlov, Conditioned Reflexes, Dover edition, p. 311).

“[Rock music] is the strongest drug in the world” (Steven Tyler of Aerosmith, Rock Beat, Spring 1987, p. 23).

“Music works in mysterious ways. Once it goes in [the ear] you really have no say about what it does to you” (Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones, “Music Quotes,” Cynthia Radio).

“A rock concert is in fact a rite involving the evocation and transmutation of energy. Rock stars may be compared to priests. ... For such magic to succeed, it must tap the sources of magical energy, and this can be dangerous” (William Burroughs, Rock Music, June 1975).

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Funny how when strict Baptists want to make their point they quote depraved sinners...

It's a sad day when even unsaved individuals who have no morals can see the moral effects of musical styles, and yet Christians turn a blind eye.

Open your eyes.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Out of curiosity--is your purpose in these threads to learn more about this subject since you are still not entirely settled on it?
Because if that's not your purpose, I don't want to add to your frustration by shoving opposing viewpoints in your face.

You could say that.

I'm a swinging pendulum on the subject at the moment.

 

[Scarlett O.]

It's a sad day when even unsaved individuals who have no morals can see the moral effects of musical styles, and yet Christians turn a blind eye.

Open your eyes.

Every quote you have cited on this thread is just someone's opinion - and most of them unfounded ones, at that.

 

[evenifigoalone]

You could say that.

I'm a swinging pendulum on the subject at the moment.

Okay.

The source you are using right now sounds exactly like the tracts I grew up with. The arguments they use are faulty and subjective--they only really make sense if you already agree with them. At least that's my opinion.

Anybody can make a case against something by taking quotes here and there and using them whether the context fits or not.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Okay.

The source you are using right now sounds exactly like the tracts I grew up with. The arguments they use are faulty and subjective--they only really make sense if you already agree with them. At least that's my opinion.

Anybody can make a case against something by taking quotes here and there and using them whether the context fits or not.

And what exactly is it that changed your mind?

 

[righteousdude2]

Music is ....

....What music does!

In other words, what one style of music [let's say Rock and roll] does within the heart and mind and even body of you, may not be what it does to another.

I may be weird, but RNR has never caused me to get all hot and bothered. I do like most beats, and the tunes; the words do not even register with me. In fact, some people can sing every word to songs, while I barely know the title.

Some say country is immoral. And while it is about sex and cheating and drinking, once again, it does not inspire me to go out and do any of those things!

So, I guess a person has to know what certain things do to them, and if it is bad for them both spiritually and morally, and stay away from the things that cause you or others to stumble or sin!

For instance, for some, their kryptonite may be a large chocolate malt shake! Others a pack of cigarettes. Still others may have a hard time avoiding bars and liquor stores. And still others, have tempers, or lose lips, assassinating everyone they know with words that can ruin a life and reputation.

We needed to know that which is our achilles tendon and stay at least at arm's length! And that goes for styles of music!

That is my two cents of opinion ... and by the way, some are guilty of spending and over spending, because money burns a proverbial hole in the pockets! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[evenifigoalone]

And what exactly is it that changed your mind?

Mainly coming to the conclusion that the tracts' arguments didn't really address the issue. Their proof essentially amount to quotes by rock musicians, their poor lifestyle choices, and the like...and, that's not really proof.
The quotes...well, they're opinions rather than facts, and calling them facts doesn't prove that they are such. Plus, we have no clue what the original context of the quotes were.
Examples of unGodly lives led by rock musicians and especially Christian rock musicians...well, there's no way to prove that the music is the cause. And we believe people are born with a sin nature from birth, so why would something else be the cause of their sin? Especially when I began to look into it and found that there were some pretty legit and commendable Christians behind some Christian bands. (Even some "secular" artists are actually Christian, it may just not be the focus of their music.)

I just checked things out for myself and what I saw didn't line up with the picture the tracts had painted.

 

[Inspector Javert]

To paraphrase Orwell:

"All musical styles are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Do musical styles carry morals with them?

No, but they can lend themselves to certain moral mores better than others.

Does the music itself communicate a message without lyrics?

Yes.
Madrigals are great examples."Word-painting" carries a message.

 

[padredurand]

When I'm feeling melancholy I like to put on the headphones and drown myself in Mozart. 55 minutes of Requiem in D Minor and I'm good to go.

equiem aeternam dona ets, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat ets.
Te decet hymnus, Deus, in Sion,
et tibi reddetur votum in Jerusalem.
Exaudi orationem meam,
ad te omnis caro veniet.
Requiem aeternam dona ets, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat ets.

Grant them eternal rest, O Lord,
and may perpetual light shine on them.
Thou, O God, art praised in Sion,
and unto Thee shall the vow
be performed in Jerusalem.
Hear my prayer, unto Thee shall all flesh come.
Grant them eternal rest, 0 Lord,
and may perpetual light shine on them.

What's not to love? No rebellion here! Don't you just love the Christian emphasis in the lyric wrapped in classical music by one of the best known composers of his time! Mozart wrote 17 sonatas, 19 masses, and at least 35 compositions in a genre known as sacred music.

Bach gave us God's word.
Mozart gave us God's laughter.
Beethoven gave us God's fire.
God gave us Music that we might pray without words.
- From a German opera house

Except Mozart also wrote this....

My dear lady, this is a list
Of the beauties my master has loved,
A list which I have compiled.
Observe, read along with me.
In Italy, six hunddred and forty;
In Germany, two hundred and thirty-one;
A hundred in France; in Turkey, ninety-one;
In Spain already one thousand and three.
Among these are peasant girls,
Maidservants, city girls,
Countesses, baronesses,
Marchionesses, princesses,
Women of every rank,
Every shape, every age.
With blondes it is his habit
To praise their kindness;
In brunettes, their faithfulness;
In the very blond, their sweetness.
In winter he likes fat ones.
In summer he likes thin ones.
He calls the tall ones majestic.
The little ones are always charming.
He seduces the old ones
For the pleasure of adding to the list.
His greatest favourite
Is the young beginner.
It doesn't matter if she's rich,
Ugly or beautiful;
If she wears a petticoat,
You know what he does.

Leporello's "Catalog Aria" from Don Giovanni

Now even classical music is of the devil. What's left Gregorian chants or silence?

 

[preachinjesus]

Funny how when strict Baptists want to make their point they quote depraved sinners...

Funny how all the examples are derived exclusively from Western/American culture.

This is the real problem with fundamentalist views of music and other things, it lacks any awareness of the broader global culture.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

When I'm feeling melancholy I like to put on the headphones and drown myself in Mozart. 55 minutes of Requiem in D Minor and I'm good to go.

equiem aeternam dona ets, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat ets.
Te decet hymnus, Deus, in Sion,
et tibi reddetur votum in Jerusalem.
Exaudi orationem meam,
ad te omnis caro veniet.
Requiem aeternam dona ets, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat ets.

Grant them eternal rest, O Lord,
and may perpetual light shine on them.
Thou, O God, art praised in Sion,
and unto Thee shall the vow
be performed in Jerusalem.
Hear my prayer, unto Thee shall all flesh come.
Grant them eternal rest, 0 Lord,
and may perpetual light shine on them.

What's not to love? No rebellion here! Don't you just love the Christian emphasis in the lyric wrapped in classical music by one of the best known composers of his time! Mozart wrote 17 sonatas, 19 masses, and at least 35 compositions in a genre known as sacred music.



Except Mozart also wrote this....

My dear lady, this is a list
Of the beauties my master has loved,
A list which I have compiled.
Observe, read along with me.
In Italy, six hunddred and forty;
In Germany, two hundred and thirty-one;
A hundred in France; in Turkey, ninety-one;
In Spain already one thousand and three.
Among these are peasant girls,
Maidservants, city girls,
Countesses, baronesses,
Marchionesses, princesses,
Women of every rank,
Every shape, every age.
With blondes it is his habit
To praise their kindness;
In brunettes, their faithfulness;
In the very blond, their sweetness.
In winter he likes fat ones.
In summer he likes thin ones.
He calls the tall ones majestic.
The little ones are always charming.
He seduces the old ones
For the pleasure of adding to the list.
His greatest favourite
Is the young beginner.
It doesn't matter if she's rich,
Ugly or beautiful;
If she wears a petticoat,
You know what he does.

Leporello's "Catalog Aria" from Don Giovanni

Now even classical music is of the devil. What's left Gregorian chants or silence?

There are different periods of classical music, our hymns do not borrow from all of them.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

So how do you define what classical music is worldly and which is not? There is at least one Mozart hymn in most of our conservative hymnals.

And we use plenty of Haydn, who was a friend and contemporary.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

So how do you define what classical music is worldly and which is not? There is at least one Mozart hymn in most of our conservative hymnals.

And we use plenty of Haydn, who was a friend and contemporary.

Would you say Classical Music has similar roots to styles like Rock and Roll or Hip Hop?

Has Classical Music been used to promote rebellion against God and sin in the same way as these other genres?