Are obese men qualified to be pastors?

Sorry for two posts in a row, folks, but Cindy's dad is right! Mark Twain said something along these lines, too. I can't remember the exact quote, but the essence of it went like this:

"When I was 20, I knew my father was the stupidest man in the world. By the time I was 25 I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in that time!"

I've told others that the time I was a perfect parent was before I had kids.

Who was it said "youth is a wonderful thing. Too bad it's wasted on the young!" ? I keep thinking maybe W.C. Fields? Maybe that was Mark Twain, too?

 

PTW you are a young man with strong convictions and I applaud that as long as you practice grace. As you have reminded us this is a debate forum but it is part of a Baptist message board that has as one of it's rules to show grace to other posters. In my opinion some of your comments and threads do not. It is curious to me that Christ who bought me with a price extends me more grace than a human being does. I don't wish to argue with you but I do ask you to use caution in your selection of topics in the future, you are correct this is a debate forum but we all must make certain we debate and not instigate.

Murph

 

I disagree that Paul's statement was about preachers only. Paul was speaking of the crown to be won at the end of the race. He was speaking of salvation.

As Matthew Henry put it:

That being said, I will say this, that God has been convicting me of my lust for food. I am pudgy around the middle and in the last three years have gained 25 pounds. I am, like Murph, about 75 pounds overweight now.

The reason I am overweight is a lack of self-control. Others like to blame a host of physiological ailments, many of which are themselves a result of being overweight. The fact of the matter is, if I am a pound overwieght, it is because I ate a pound more of food than I needed.

Here are the Scriptures the Lord brought to my attention:

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

The NIV translates "fulness of bread" as "overfed."

Ecclesiastes 10:16-17 Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child, and thy princes eat in the morning! Blessed art thou, O land, when thy king is the son of nobles, and thy princes eat in due season, for strength, and not for drunkenness!

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

And of course, the verse to which Preach referred us originally, 1 Cor. 9:27.

I stayed out of this thread for so long because I know it's a hot-button. But I can't let the illusions go on without a response. Do I think this is a personal concviction only? No. I think it is a universal non-optional principle.

I know this, I am weak and cannot do it on my own. My success with my weightloss (I can slide into my dress slacks a little easier now and buckle my belt a notch tighter) is directly related to how much a matter of prayer I make this. I don't worry about the kind of food either. That's another myth. It is the amount. It is God that is enabling me to make only one trip to the buffet, to resist Super-sizing my Extra-Value Meal, and to get up from the table when dinner is over.

What? Am I condemning others? Ludicrous. I am a morally weak and beggarly worm whose only boast is in the Cross. I see God's righteous standard and I beat my breast and cry out "Lord, have mercy upon me a sinner!" I don't even lift my eyes to heaven. Where do I come off condemning others? I can, however, point them to the Way.

 

I am fat.

But you don't look all that slender yourself, Preach,
with those cute little chipmonk cheeks.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

For myself, I will always battle weight. When I was
a young person, living in my parents' home, I
bordered on an anorexic condition, but not
because I wanted to be that way; because my
mother could not cook.

Many times, my only meal would be two rolls and
two pats of butter with chocolate milk at school.
for lunch -- that is all, all day. When I ate at home,
her foods were full of animal fat. She would not let
me cook, because she thought I could not. Result:
I will always have a weight problem.

It is easy to judge others and not so easy to judge
ourselves. Many unkind words written here, and in
other threads of late, demonstrate this all too well.

Perhaps those of you who know you are perfect
sould form your own places of worship; those of
us who recognize that we are not will stay where
we are.

 

I was very surprised by this statement from you Abiyah. You are usually very even handed, but not in this statement.

I have read this whole thread and haven't seen anyone claim that they are perfect or even imply such a notion (although they have been accused of such claims more than once in this thread).

If this thread was started by naming a person and condemning them for being obese, then the claims of being unkind would be justified. But such is not the case.

This is merely a topic and the relating biblical texts being discussed and debated. It's not personal. At least not in my view. The topic starter can correct me if I'm wrong.

If any topic that is debated or discussed here at the BB hits a little too close to home for some people, then those people are not forced to read and/or participate in those discussions. There are plenty of other options to choose from.

 

Only because you could not see my big grin as I
wrote it. I have been criticized for writing that I
was smiling or grinning, and I have been criticized
for no indicating them. One never knows.

In part of my post, I was very serious; in tha part,
I was not.

 

The question was proposed by Preach the Word:

And the proper answer to that question is: What kind of a silly question is this?! OF COURSE THEY ARE QUALIFIED! Didn't you folks ever read the Bible? Well, let's see what God says about fatness in Leviticus 3:16:

It is a very silly attempt to compare 1 Corinthians 9:26, 27 to fatness or gluttony, it is a very bad exegesis. Let's see what the Bible says here:

When Paul talks about bringing his body under subjection, he is not talking about food. He is talking about bringing his body under his inner self, the spirit, which in turn has to be brought under subjection of the Holy Spirit. The Scripture passage has nothing to do with gluttony, and I for one take it an offense when someone tries to equate the physical condition of a preacher as a pre-requisite to shepherding. I grant it, a good physical condition is ideal - but it is not a must! God can use a 300 pound person as well as a 90 pound weakling equally. Please remember this folks (and especially those who are preparing for the ministry): The only ability God is interested in you, is your availability!

So, please do not spend idle time in discussing matters of insignificance - for this appears to be nothing else but trying to split a strand of hair. Actually, it is a non sequitur!

 

Did I say I didn't believe weight is included in disciplining the body? Maybe it appeared that was what I meant. I think I said it is not always a matter of lack of self-control or lack of self-discipline.

I was also referring to we need help and the above is so true with some people.

I just can't agree that an overweight pastor is not qualified to preach. Maybe that is what you meant, PTW. Paul had a thorne in his side that God did not take away. Couldn't overweight be a thorne to some people? Just a thought.

I still think that it is unkind to judge or make fun of a person for being what we think is overweight or fat. Maybe God doesn't consider that person overweight or fat.

 

Thanks for clarifying, Abiyah.

It really is difficult to tell sometimes, the spirit in which something is stated in a post. I know that I have been misunderstood before.

 

Barnabas7,
Finally!!! A voice of reason is heard!!! A hearty AMEN to you.

Cindy

 

Thank you, Barnabas7.

 

Barnabas,

I must confess it is difficult to follow you here. You take a verse from Leviticus clearly out of context (and very funny in fact) but then complain about PTW's exegesis. How does that work?? Bad exegesis is okay for you but not for others???

BTW, I don' believe that PTW's reference to 1 Cor 9 was out of place. There are other passages that could be brought in as well.

 

Just three brief queries: Do you not distinguish between "pastor" and "preacher"? Have you never heard of (or do you deny the legitimacy of) "lay preachers"? Do you believe that the lists of qualifications in the Pastorals are meant to apply to all preachers?

Haruo

 

For those who seem to have missed it

...all the fat is the LORD's!


was by way of humor and possibly de-antagonizing part of what was going on here.

Wish I had thought of that line, though! I found myself laughing when I read it. And then I started thinking about what would happen if someone took it seriously! Wow! Then Murph could say he belonged to the Lord more than Diane does!

That definitely made me hungry for something REALLY fattening!

But I'm too lazy to get up and get it. Another sin. Sigh....

 

That is great PTW Share your secret with us. Did you follow a diet, limit your portions, and exercise more?

 

I am going to join my chunky brothers here. I am obese myself, and I must admit that it is due to over-eating. I also agree that we must try to keep our bodies under our control and not let our eating habits control our lives. Btw, I have been losing weight too; 85 lbs. total. My mother has lost over 100 lbs.(We are on the same diet).

Let me ask one question, would you also consider some unqualified if they are too skinny? How about a preacher who smokes? What about one that dips? And, what specifications determine when someone is too overweight? underweight? Can a person have a cigarette every once in a while and still preach? When does it become excess?

Now, with something like drinking it is easy to see. When you're drunk, you've been drinking too much. How much is too fat? Would a skinny person who gorges at every meal until they are sick also be disqualified?

To answer your question, I believe that Paul was referring to someone examining themselves. Perhaps he meant weight too, I don't know. Let put it to you in my words, "I am getting really fat. I really need to start watching my diet. If I start letting food control my life, then I will have put God aside and put food first." Personally, I believe this is a good interpretation, referring to his problem as food, anyway. But, I see him as examining himself. I do not see him saying that the church should stop him from preaching.

The church, or anyone else for that matter, does not know when a preacher has put something before God, for the most part. Usually, you will be able to tell in his preaching, if God is displeased.

If I was ordained, and I felt as if food was in front of God in my priorities, I would disqualify MYSELF from preaching. I believe this is what Paul meant, and I believe it was more of an admonition to himself and an admission of his own sins. I doubt that the church at Ephesus, or any other, told him he was too fat to preach, even if he felt that way about himself.

On a personal note, let us encourage one another in our endeavors to follow after the Lord and live a godly life. You get more flies with hiney than you do with vinegar. If you want someone to lose weight, let them know that you are concerned about their welfare. Don't tell them they look too fat to preach.

Bro. James - a fat Primitive Baptist

 

I thought it was very funny ... hilarious ... but strange in light of the latter comment.