Are Old Fashioned Baptist Churches shrinking?

Just to point out, the description of the KJV as the "King Jimmy" version violates one of the BB rules. So would calling the New Living Translation, say, the "New Lying" or "New Dying Translation" violate the same rule.

http://www.baptistboard.com/postingrules.html

And while the following rule may be specific to one forum of the BB, I'd say the spirit is not, IMO.

If I am wrong, I am willing to be corrected by any Moderator, Administrator, or the Webmaster.

Ed

 

I don't see precedence for it in scripture and that just because Christ taught via object lessons that equates to let's watch a movie or let's turn on the television. When Jesus Christ was giving object lessons he used words and is thus why I think we should use words. Perhaps this is an example of the difference between being a progressive and being a conservative/old-fashioned.

 

Jeremiah and Isaiah used more than words. Were they wrong?

 

interesting...so using a Christian film, with a Christian message, to illustrate a Christian point to a bunch of Christians...

...is wrong.

Wow.

 

God had Jeremiah use his belt, he had him watch a potter.....GASP!

If a person who holds to "we must only use words" to teach should not set foot in any kind of educational position, religious or secular. It shows lack of ability to teach, and lack of desire to......reach! (sorry for the cheesy rhyme).

 

well I call that in normal conversation because the other way is silly. But just to be in line with the guidelines (probably should read them one of these days) I've changed my above post to reflect some modicum of conformity.

Anyhoo, on to more important matters.

 

By the way, my church doesn't have Sunday school.......you can all now get up off the floor.....I imagine many would feel that this is a near heretical decision to make. But this is part of the point made, churches that refuse to design and format to best reach their particular culture/subculture will not fair well in reaching those who need Jesus. Many would respond with "well we like it, so we will keep it because we've always done so". Well, because the majority of those who have sat in the church for 20 + years like it doesn't mean it is what should be done. But, maybe it is.

 

The church I attend, grew up in, and have been a member of most of my Christian life, save when I lived elsewhere, has also been around for a few years - starting our 225th year. We haven't had a lot of revivals, recently, mostly because we've been too busy growing, mission trips, evangelism, etc., and have had little time for them. We are on our second building program in the last few years, 'cause we need the space, as our membership has been jumping to its largest in our history, since we started "doing" missions rather than just sponsoring them. And we are a fairly small country church, with a membership of some 650, and a roll that has not been searched in recent years, but attendance has gone from the 150-160 mark some eight years ago to hitting around 300+ consistently. (We've had some services over 400.), and growing, and showing no signs of slowing anytime soon. The music is a varied blend, at least in specials, and the preacher taught from the KJV last evening.

Let's not confuse 'tradition' with 'precept' as another noted. I personally love this quote from a noted non- Baptist.

I agree.

Ed

 

I haven't watched the film so I can't speak intelligently about it. I've read through the soundtrack lyrics in the past and couldn't find Jesus Christ mentioned once which is not uncommon with today's contemporary Christian music. I've been in protestant churches that have promoted movies such as the "The Passion of the Christ" and they had me convinced that it was a Christian movie until God saved me from my Catholic lite worldview. This same megachurch based many sermons on popular theater like Braveheart and Monty Python and television shows such as Seinfeld and Everybody Loves Raymond. In my worldview, hypocrites do not belong in church whether it is recorded or live. If it worked for you then praise God. I'm not so interested in judging you as I am in demonstrating the difference between progressive churches and conservative churches and why I believe "Old-Fashioned" churches are the way to go and I am not in favor of the new paths. If "Old-Fashioned" churches are shrinking it is only because they are not entertaining enough for the masses and I do not believe churches should be about amusing people.

 

Would it be "silly" if I had not abbreviated "King James Version"? Or used "Authorized Version"? That is what the version is known by, in the flyleaf and/or often on the cover, as well.

FTR, I do not use the King James Version, preferring another.

Ed

 

What consititutes adding anything else is to say that unless you do this or do that people will not believe. In other words unles you use progresive methods gen x will not believe. Or unless you use this method or that method people will not have the ability to believe.

The preaching of the Word of God is what reaches people and nothing else. Romans 10:9-17

 

You've missed it. While you have a point about entertaining, you are lumping all creative ministry into entertainment. Praise God Jesus didn't have the attitude of keeping things "Old Fashioned".

 

lol...hehe...I once was in the studio with a guy who recorded a hidden track on his CD that just kept saying "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" in a melodic way with a tune on his guitar for the purpose of satisfying the "Jesuses Per Minute" requirement of some people in his church. Just thought about that. It was great.

[quoteThis same megachurch based many sermons on popular theater like Braveheart and Monty Python and television shows such as Seinfeld and Everybody Loves Raymond.[/quote]

we do that, well not Monty Python but British humor isn't funny, in moderation b/c there are some terrific principles to use as illustrations into the text.

Don't forget that Paul used a secular poem in Acts 17:28 from Aratus, a third century BC Greek poet, to draw a spiritual principle to explain the Gospel.

Life change happens at the intersection of the Gospel and conviction...sometimes we can get people there faster through common cultural metaphors.

 

On this about 'revival', we agree. I recall one of my SS teachers once saying "We are going to have a week of 'meetings'. Whether or not we are going to have 'revival', remains to be seen." BTW, at that time, we did not have much of any any revival, IMO.

Ed

 

Calling it a KJV is silly, whereas calling it King Jimmy is dignified?

 

Tell that to the woman at the well, or to the adultress, or to anyone else Jesus came in contact with and loved. I would say that Jesus did a lot more than "preach the word of God". At least, today's warped definition of "preach the word of God". Read the parable of the sower. If you do nothing to prepare the soil, all you are doing is "preaching the word of God", but you are scattering it on lifeless dirt.

 

What power does "creative ministry" have, that the Word of God does not?

 

Maybe the biggest thing we should look at is how many people are you baptizing in your church in a year? How many people are going on mission for God in their communities and abroad?

Show me an "Old Fashioned" church that is baptizing dozens and sending hundred on mission and I'll shake their hand...hug their neck...and praise God for their witness.

Life change is the key. How are you changing lives in your community? Methodology isn't the devil in the details...it is a means to an end.

 

Well here is the lyrics to the main song in the movie...
It doesn't take a genius to figure out the spirituality of the song...

Maybe that is the difference between the "old fashioned" and modern..
The old fashioned has to be spoon fed, and are unable to think for themselves.... If they would think for themselves, they would not be stuck in a century old rut that is killing churches.
If they would think for themselves they would see that what they have been doing is killing their church instead of building it up.
If they would think for themselves, they could come up with effective ways to reach out and become relevant to the masses, so that people will come to Christ and not go to Hell.

But sadly, some are so stuck in their rut, that if Jesus was to actually visit their churches, no one would move over and give him their seat!

I thank God I serve in a progressive, conservative church... he he hee.
We are conservative with the message, but use up to date methods that are reaching people and souls are being saved.

conservative with message
progressive with methods


From Casting Crowns.:

Oh what I would do to have
The kind of faith it takes
To climb out of this boat I'm in
Onto the crashing waves

To step out of my comfort zone
Into the realm of the unknown where Jesus is
And He's holding out His hand

But the waves are calling out my name
And they laugh at me
Reminding me of all the times
I've tried before and failed
The waves they keep on telling me
Time and time again. "Boy, you'll never win!"
"You'll never win!"

Chorus:
But the voice of truth tells me a different story
The voice of truth says, "Do not be afraid!"
The voice of truth says, "This is for My glory"
Out of all the voices calling out to me
I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth

Oh what I would do to have
The kind of strength it takes to stand before a giant
With just a sling and a stone
Surrounded by the sound of a thousand warriors
Shaking in their armor
Wishing they'd have had the strength to stand

But the giant's calling out my name
And he laughs at me
Reminding me of all the times
I've tried before and failed
The giant keeps on telling me
Time and time again. "Boy you'll never win!"
"You'll never win!"

But the stone was just the right size
To put the giant on the ground
And the waves they don't seem so high
From on top of them lookin' down
I will soar with the wings of eagles
When I stop and listen to the sound of Jesus
Singing over me

I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth


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