Are Old Fashioned Baptist Churches shrinking?

Some of these posts, maybe, but not ALL. As I've said before, some of the most incredible churches I've ever been in were peopled by 20-50 people on Sunday morning, but they loved WHOEVER came through their door. In fact, I've heard that some incredible percentage (like 80%) of Baptist churches are under 250 people in attendance. It may not be the small church that gets the attention, but most often, that's where God will choose to work. IF they'll reach outside the walls of their church and be relevant to the people who are lost.

 

I don't have cause to doubt this as I am confident you to be a laborer in the Lord. I do not desire to criticize you or your church personally but rather to make a case for why I believe "old-fashioned" churchin is better than the "new-fashioned".

Hypocrisy is synonymous with acting...

Webster's 1828

Hypocrisy - 1. Simulation; a feigning to be what one is not...​

Online Etymology Dictionary

hypocrisy
c.1225, from O.Fr. ypocrisie, from L.L. hypocrisis, from Gk. hypokrisis "acting on the stage, pretense," from hypokrinesthai "play a part, pretend," also "answer," from hypo- "under" + middle voice of krinein "to sift, decide" (see crisis). The sense evolution is from "separate gradually" to "answer" to "answer a fellow actor on stage" to "play a part." Thus hypocrite (c.1225) is ult. Gk. hypokrites "actor on the stage, pretender." ​

Yes we would, though we would disagree on which Word.

True, the word is relative. If you are in favor of modeling after 2nd-century worship, let's do it. Far better to model after the 2nd century than the 21st.

I believe it. Lord's blessings upon your local assembly.

 

Well said...totally agree.

 

And to yours as well :thumbs:

 

Waaaiiiit a minute....

What are we doing? Agreeing? Finding common ground????

C'mon people, get your "business meeting faces" on! :laugh:

 

Our churches are commanded by Christ to grow.

I've served in churches from 20 to 6,000 on the weekend and several in between. All kinds have been great communities. Again, so long as your assembly is bringing people into the Kingdom, baptizing, equipping and sending them out than we are accomplishing that command.

Our churches aren't supposed to be holy huddles. That is a command from Christ we should be going and getting and sitting and soaking.

Show me in Scripture where we should sit around and not care about lost around us. Show me where we must so inward focused that we forget about those who we run into daily that need Christ.

We all need the growth complex to push us to great things for Christ.

 

So many folks and especialy in the Emerging Church movement have gotten such an outward focus that true worship has been set aside for evangelsitic reasons. Gathering together to sing, pray, be taught and lead by the God ordained Pastor is necessary, commanded and essential.

Much of what goes on today under the guise of worship is really self worship because we want to do it our way. Focusing on worship inside the walls of the church on Sunday morning is biblical and should be driven by scripture not what appeals to lost people.

Numbers are not evidence of either a living church or a dead church. Both living and dead churches have small and large numbers. A living church focuses on worship of God. Period.

Evangelism has become the excuse for self indulgent, godless, rebellious, irreverent, form of worship. There are those who want to focus on some teachings and examples of Christ like his love, healing, reaching out to sinners but ignore his hard teachings like hell, sin, redemption, the cross, His shed blood, and submission. They suggest that the gospel isnt being watered down in their self indulgent practices but very seldom call anyone to repentance or recognition of sin.

Churches wether "old fashioned" or progressive can be and are as dead as the dry bones in Ezekial 37. But the death has not occured because of style, or methods as is claimed by the EC. They are dead because they are lost. A church filled with true saints of God cannot die. And new methods are not necessary to reach people. Methods are ok so long as they do not water down the gospel and are not seen as a necessary agent of salvation. In other words not seen as "if we do not have them we cannot reach people with the gospel". That is a lie from hell.

 

Good reference tinytim.

Some of the "so called fathers had much of it right", but Sunday observance began long before Justin Marytr, as did worship that was to be uncomplicated with focus on preaching of the Cross. Proof of the Christian faith, belief and worship must be done before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A. D. I believe it imperative we go back to the beginning to verify, making determination of validity of what we believe.

It is not I hold the "so called father's" views in disrepute, but are we one whit behind, when we believe Paul's gospel? It looks as if Justin Marytr is on the same page as was the churches after Pentecost. We don't need man to mold and make our belief for us, if we allow the Holy Spirit to do so. Scripture tells us iniquity had already begun its work during the time of the Apostles. Iniquity continues its work, and so must we continue in His Word", whether some of the fathers did, or did not go back to the words of Jesus of earth, and of heaven.

I don't know who interjected in your post the following:
"Never did faithful people SERMONIZE or further expound (private interpretation) the Inspired Word of God. Rather, preaching was simply making sure that everyone understood that which was read and exhorted to keep. To Timothy the EVANGELIST Till I come, give attendance to (public) reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.1Ti.4:13
Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended,"

Paul is not telling us in I Timothy one man is to rule over all other men. Paul today is not here, nor Peter or any Apostles of Jesus Christ to lay hand's on any man to establish or carry on a succession of their Apostleship. All this does is tell us how the Catholic Church came into being. If we take this as written, then all but ONE BAPTIST PREACHER has no business being in the business he is in. Or we had better start listening to the POPE as all his people do. My friend somebody is wrong and I don’t believe it is you and I. We are in the Body Church and are free believing on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.

Paul had authority to show how a local church is to be set up, but nowhere does he ever demand a male member to keep their mouth shut in church. He says be followers of me by permission of Christ Jesus. His understanding and authority came from Christ Jesus in heaven, and is the reason we are to listen to, understand, and spread to the world the gospel Christ gave to him. Bless all those missionaries whole truly suffer for the cause of Christ, along with we each will not allow any man or church tp shut us up. We are after all Ambassadors for Christ.

When we go to church we are to sit and listen hopefully to hear HIS WORD as presented by Paul. We may not agree with Paul, or the Preacher for whatever reason, but we are to sit, listen, not being disorderly. The Epistles to Timothy and Titus show us the Order a church is to be set-up under, and in Corinthians we are told "all things be done decently and in order".

 

Love the way you express truth

 

I see there are some who have conversation with Rufus, you being one. Are they, or you in agreement with some of his points? I'm in this instance agreeing more with him than those disagreeing.

We are not a "stiff necked people", and that is to whom Jeremiah and Isaiah were speaking. We are not Israel. Christ told Paul, and Paul told us, here I come. "I go to the Gentiles for they will hear."Pure stupidity, and heresy I know, but that is what I believe.

I have never said you, or any other on this board believe His Word was not to be central. But what we say, do and present (in what ever manner) can take away that which is "Central". Once we unknowingly believe what we can present will enhance the meaning and more clarify His Word (Which is plain) moves us from the Center of all things. When we add (or subtract) to the center of all things, I say we wish to interject, attempting to clarify what has already been made Central.

I believe only He can create. I have not seen the film, but I know what it portrays, as all films that are supposed to inspire us to believe and come to Christ that are made to make money, and charge to do so.

To begin with to who goes the "hype"? By reputation Billy Graham's movies elevate him above others, yet he himself says he may not be welcome in heaven, because he is not "Mother Teresa". It is no sin to build on Gods creativeness, but in doing so are we are not to be doing it, thinking we are gaining points to get into heaven. Evidently Dr. Graham doesn't believe even making movies is enough to work his way to heaven.

Will this "play, show, or movie" you reference win any to Christ? Will it get any that made it, or that or in it, or that see it into heaven? I don't know, but I do know if we preach the Word of believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we will be saved, and there will be new members added to the Body of Christ. Does this "show put on by man" say you will go to hell if you do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, or is it watered down to not offend anyone, but made acceptable to the taste of their mind? If I am wrong I here apologize for my ignorance, and making unfounded accusation's without firsthand knowledge of what the show portrays. The show may have elements pointing to a belief in God, but is the Cross with the blood at the center?

The Lost need the Word, and the Saved need to preach the Word of salvation of believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. How they ask? By the Grace of God, through faith of and in Jesus Christ who shed His blood on the Cross, and if we believe we need works also, we do boast.

I didn't bring a play such as "Facing the Giants" to help people understand our God.

Shouldn't we ask who us is? To whom is Jesus speaking?
Jesus had not yet shed His Blood. I believe something new, never before known happened on Damascus Road. Again, some will call me a heretic, just as was Paul, for the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven is not the "orthodox preaching of the great commission".

 

"God, I thank thee, that I'm not as other men ar..."

Ed

 

I go to a church that is soooo old fashioned that we don't even meet your criteria for old fashioned. Sunday schools, revival meetings as you understand them, mission boards, and Wednesday night services would all be viewed as newfangled extra-scriptural human inventions. And they are! All that stuff was only invented in the late 1700s or later. Brand new!

I think many or most baptist churches have lost track of the quite baptist idea that things should follow the scriptural model. The good ol' way is singing, praying, and preaching in the simplest and most straightforward way possible. EVERYTHING else is a distraction from the true purpose of worship.

And yes, over the last few generations we have been shrinking. Personally, I blame two factors:

1) Most of our churches are out in the country in areas that historically had enough Primitive Baptist population to keep the church going. Now with people more mobile, they oftentimes find themselves in big cities where they may not know of any other PBs.

2) Many modern people who are used to being entertained through TV, movies, concerts, etc., expect production values in worship. We have none. Plus, most people have gotten worldlier in a broader sense, too, and are not willing to undertake the self-denial that goes along with membership at a very conservative church.

And someone said, "The church has gotten worldlier, and the world has gotten church-ier."

 

That is the finest Christian movie I have seen in a long time. PTL that Christian movies sometimes find a spot in the secular world.

 

I'm seeing two extremes:

"Old fashioned should be ditched"

and

"You're doing it differently than me. You must be wrong."

I'm uncomfortable with both.

Ituttut, I don't think you adequately addressed two points I made:

1. There will ALWAYS be creative input in worship. Otherwise, don't sing. Don't use illustrations. Don't expound upon the Scriptural text. Don't use a poem. Don't play an instrument. Don't pray in your own words. God wants us to be creative...but He doesn't want us supplanting His word with creativity...which, by the way, my church doesn't do.

2. You didn't really address Mark 9. To be honest, I'm not sure what you did with that account. But the fact remains...some of the disciples had their Authentic Biblical Bathrobes in a wad because someone who wasn't on their "approved list" was doing the work of Jesus. I think the point is quite applicable here.

Let me commend so many of you posters. It's one thing to say, "I don't like that," or "I'm not using that in my church." Most all of you have stayed away from, "That's not of God." That is appreciated.

 

I just watched Facing the Giants tonight for the first time... I love it!!!
If people find something wrong with that movie, they have their heads screwed on backwards!!! It is one of the greatest.

I wish more churches would quit complaining about how bad the world is, and try to do something like Sherwood Baptist did by producing that movie!

And I want to thank the OP for this thread. It has made me appreciate how blessed I am to be a pastor of a church that is not stuck in the 16th century trying to win souls in the 21st century.

Between the movie tonight, and this thread, I was inspired to write an article on my blog about thinking outside the box.

Please, whether your church is old fashioned, progressive, progressive/conservative, etc..... just ask God what He wants you to do to reach people today... He will show you.

But be prepared to act when He shows you.
Don't say, "I'm not going to, God, because we have never done it this way." Try something new for God... He just might surprise you...

Afterall, who would have thought that a stone could take down a giant?
Pretty progressive on David's part I think!!!

What are your stones? Are you using them? If not why not?
I get criticized on here sometimes for my out of the box ideas. But at least I am trying to reach the world.

Don't sit there and condemn us that are trying if you refuse to try yourself...

 

I would love to see this "Facing the Giants" movie based on the many rave reviews. How can I find it?

 

Walmart has it.
Our local movie rental store has it.

 

Thanks, Tiny. I will hunt for it. What is it about exactly?

 

a "david vs. goliath" story...high school football at a Christian school.

But you'll enjoy it...even if you're not a football fan.

 

I am NOT a football fan, but I was riveted to the TV while watching this movie. It made it even more exciting to know these people were not actors. They did a fantastic job!

I rented mine through Netflix, but I'm going to buy a copy.