Are only IF Baptist going to be part of the bride?

[Kiffin]

The Baptist Bride view is one that is unique for primraly Landmarkers though not all Landmarkers hold to the Baptist Bride. The late Dr. G.N. Glover of the Missionary Baptist Seminary in Little Rock had a pamplet that said the New Jerusalem was a Baptist city with a Baptist God. A heretical statement to say the least.

When I was in the ABA I had it explained to me this way dealing with Rev 20-22. This is the three classes in Heaven I was told

1. The Nations that are saved are the Protestants such as Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Whitefield etc.. as well as unfaithfull Baptists and they are on the outer realm of glory and are allowed to enter and visit the New Jerusalem but not stay there .

2. The Old Testament saints will surround the New Jerusalem and like the Protestants they are allowed to enter and visit the New Jerusalem but not stay there

3. The New Jerusalem will consist of all faithfull Baptists (Beginning with the apostles) and they will be able to dwell in the presence of the Holy Trinity without leaving. This is the Bride who has been faithfull.

Since leaving the ABA (and not all hold to the Baptist Bride even there) I find this concept to be borderline cultic.

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by TimothyW:
If javalady's grandmother or ANYBODY ELSE has any hope of being save , IT IS BY GOD'S GRACE ALONE!

It is most emphatically not what denomination they were in.

Timothy, if you will go back and read what John said, you will note he did not mention a denomination, but a faithfullness to bible doctrine.

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by TimothyW:
Total Nonsense!

So, Timothy, are you claiming Whitefield, Edwards and Wesley were faithful in believers baptism, membership in a bible believing church that practiced the two ordinances as given in the Great Commission?

 

[Carly33]

Correct me please if you think I'm wrong but...if I repent of my sin and accept Christs sacrifice and have faith in Jesus work on the cross,,, I receive salvation and am adopted into the kingdom of God. I become a born again believer and a part of the body of Christ(the church).

On that basis I believe the aforementioned men of God do qualify to be part of the bride of Christ.

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by Carly33:
Correct me please if you think I'm wrong but...if I repent of my sin and accept Christs sacrifice and have faith in Jesus work on the cross,,, I receive salvation and am adopted into the kingdom of God. I become a born again believer and a part of the body of Christ(the church).

On that basis I believe the aforementioned men of God do qualify to be part of the bride of Christ.

I'm sorry ,but wrong again. Jesus said in John 3:5 "..Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the KINGDOM of God." (emphasis mine). The kingdom is not the body (church) nor the bride. Catholicism has to make it so in order to gain any type of credence to it's "Universal Church" abomination. The Protestants and all who agree with them believe the same things too.
Salvation does not put one into the church and I challenge you to prove so by using Scripture. You will find that you won't be able to do it without changing and "reading into" the clear meanings of Scripture. Just like the Roman Catholic institution , who by the way is the Great Whore that Thomas Cassidy spoke about, and her daughters the Protestants read into the Sacred Text.
I thought that you were finished with this topic as you said in a earlier post. What happened? Did we touch a sore spot?
Your brother
John

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by Kiffin:
The Baptist Bride view is one that is unique for primraly Landmarkers though not all Landmarkers hold to the Baptist Bride. The late Dr. G.N. Glover of the Missionary Baptist Seminary in Little Rock had a pamplet that said the New Jerusalem was a Baptist city with a Baptist God. A heretical statement to say the least.

When I was in the ABA I had it explained to me this way dealing with Rev 20-22. This is the three classes in Heaven I was told

1. The Nations that are saved are the Protestants such as Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Whitefield etc.. as well as unfaithfull Baptists and they are on the outer realm of glory and are allowed to enter and visit the New Jerusalem but not stay there .

2. The Old Testament saints will surround the New Jerusalem and like the Protestants they are allowed to enter and visit the New Jerusalem but not stay there

3. The New Jerusalem will consist of all faithfull Baptists (Beginning with the apostles) and they will be able to dwell in the presence of the Holy Trinity without leaving. This is the Bride who has been faithfull.

Since leaving the ABA (and not all hold to the Baptist Bride even there) I find this concept to be borderline cultic.

What happened to you while a member of the ABA? I don't believe in any type of organized fellowships and am member of none. This is the way that I believe that God would have it to be. You can post me privately if you like. I think that you got tangled with some so-called Baptist hiders rather than true Briders (so-called).
Your brother
John

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by TimothyW:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bro. John Willis:

Insofar as Whitefield, Edwards and Wesley are concerned the same goes for them. They were all members of false churches wilfully and therefore are without excuse. When we see them take notice and be certain they will not be the Bride but guests.

Total Nonsense![/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Would you care to prove it otherwise using Scripture? By the way did you look up your "Jesus rebuking" example and get straightened out on what it truly says and means. I'd really like to know because that would tell the story behind your comments. Waiting..................
Your brother
John

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by Carly33:
Is what I'm hearing here correct? The only ones to be the bride of Christ are the True Baptists?

What segment of the baptists holds to that doctrine.?...I've been baptist for some time and I have yet to run across that.

BTW, TimothyW, You're right :Total Nonsense.

What exactly is the definition of a false church?

I see it's definition time again.
A false church is any church (and by extension denomination) that was founded by anyone except Christ, started any where but in Palestine, started any time at or after Pentecost, started by anyone not baptized by John the Baptist or someone baptized by him and by extension down to present times, that teaches for doctrine the traditions of men rather than the commandments of God. Again..oversimplistic, but nevertheless true.
As you can plainly see, this eliminates every group and/or denomination except Baptists. Because only Baptists make the claim to be started by Christ and can prove it. All of the rest are descendants of the Roman Catholic Church and most are glad to admit it.
So much for the "kinship" theory, Kiffin.
We Baptists were never part of Rome and she knows and hates it. She ain't to glad with us either.
I know that this touches on the topic of Baptist Perpetuity and it has been hotly debated in other BaptistBoard Forumns and other threads. Let's just suffice it to say;' Why be the daughter of a Great Whore when Christ has made provision for you to be part of His Bride?
"The Spirit and the bride say, Come...." Rev.22:17
Your brother
John

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
Cassidy, since when is ignorance a virtue? Are you ignorant of the biblical doctrine of the universal church or do you just willfully reject the truth so you can peddle your conspiracy theories here? Being divisive over ignorance in regards to ecclesiological issues is carnal (1 Cor. 3). Congratulations. I am an IFB who believes the biblical account of the church. The church began at pentecost, is made up of all believers from then until the rapture. I would like to recommend a couple of courses on the following:
Bibliology, Christology, Eschatology, Soteriology, Ecclesiology, Angelology, Pneumatology, Commonsenseology. Have a nice day.

Sorry sir, but your "biblical account" just ain't true, but it is yours. Would you care to prove your miniseries by the Authorised Version 1611 please?
Your brother
John

 

[Carly33]

Just when I thought I'd heard it all.....

mama mia....now the Baptists believe they are the only true religion....a page out of the mormon doctrine....

....before you get your knickers in a knot...I am a baptist....but this is a new slant....one I'm afraid I don't adhere to....

...am I apostate too?.....seems there might only be 2 of you in the bridal party!

 

[rsr]

... started by anyone not baptized by John the Baptist or someone baptized by him and by extension down to present times, ...

Do I understand this correctly: Are you tracing some type of apostolic succession back to John the Baptist?

[ April 11, 2002, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by Carly33:
Just when I thought I'd heard it all.....

mama mia....now the Baptists believe they are the only true religion....a page out of the mormon doctrine....

....before you get your knickers in a knot...I am a baptist....but this is a new slant....one I'm afraid I don't adhere to....

...am I apostate too?.....seems there might only be 2 of you in the bridal party!

Sorry, wrong again. Try millions...at least 50 million from the Middle Ages ( Inquistion era)alone. And that's just a mild count. There are at least 15,000 in Canada alone that I've heard of. This "thing" is bigger, older and bolder than you might think. "...it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
By the way....the Mormons stole that interesting piece of doctrine from Catholicism.
Your brother
John

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by Carly33:
Just when I thought I'd heard it all.....

mama mia....now the Baptists believe they are the only true religion....a page out of the mormon doctrine....

....before you get your knickers in a knot...I am a baptist....but this is a new slant....one I'm afraid I don't adhere to....

...am I apostate too?.....seems there might only be 2 of you in the bridal party!

Please do not lie about my position, nor the position of John Wells. Lying is a terrible sin, and mocking our faith and love for the Lord is reprehensible.

 

[Daniel David]

Origin of the Church
Our Lord said: “I will build My church” (Matt. 16:18). He did not say that He would continue to add to something already in existence, but that He would do something not yet begun.
The church could have no functioning Head until after the resurrection of Christ; therefore, it could not exist until some time after He rose from the dead (Eph. 1:20-23—note how these verses connect His resurrection, ascension, and session to His headship over the church).
The church could not have been an operating entity with functioning spiritual gifts until after Christ’s ascension. This is the clear implication of Eph. 4:7-12.
By a comparison of a number of passages, it is clear that Pentecost marked the beginning of the church as a functioning body (the body of Christ) by the outpouring of the Spirit on that day. Note the following arguments:
Before His ascension the Lord promised that the disciples would be baptized with the Holy Spirit soon (Acts 1:5).
Though the word “baptism” does not appear in the account of Pentecost in chapter 2, it is quite clear from 11:15-16 that the baptism occurred for the first time on that day. Note carefully Peter’s argument here. In verse 15 he equated the indwelling of the Spirit in Acts 10:44 on the Gentile believers there with the coming of the Spirit and His indwelling in Acts 2. Then in verse 16, he equated all of this with the Lord’s promise of the baptizing of the Spirit in Acts 1:5 which shows these were one and the same, i.e., the baptizing of the Spirit. But what exactly is that?
John the Baptist said that One would come after him that would baptize with the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said that John was the greatest of all prophets; yet, the least in His kingdom would be greater than he (so John was not part of the New Covenant - Matthew 11).
According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:13, Spirit baptism is a special work of the Spirit that places people (believers) in the body of Christ. So what is the body of Christ? The body of Christ is the church according to Ephesians 1:22-23. Thus, the church, the body, began when the Spirit, which began the process of placing believers into the Body whenever any one believes in Christ, baptized those first individuals. This process began at Pentecost.
Several other things occurred on the Day of Pentecost. The disciples were filled with the Spirit (Acts 2:4). Three thousand were baptized with water (v. 41). The visible church began that day (vv. 42-47).
In addition to baptizing those who believe into the body, the Spirit also indwells individual Christians (1 Cor. 6:19), local churches (3:16), and the body of Christ (Eph. 2:22). The Spirit also empowers, leads, comforts, and gives gifts to the church (Acts 1:8; 9:31; 1 Cor. 12:3). In a very real sense, the Spirit is the energizing life and power of the church.

Now, you may receive the truth with gladness or you will do what most briders do and ignore the plain truth about the church in favor of sensationalism. It is better to have your ecclesiology based in the sure Scripture than some hopeless system that depends on history (even thought that doesn't favor the briders position). I wonder which one it will be?

 

[Carly33]

I am a liar because I don't see your interpretation?....are you supposed to personally attack the posters? I challenged your doctrine...not you as a person.

....afford me the same courtesy.

[ April 12, 2002, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Carly33 ]

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by Carly33:
I am a liar because I don't see your interpretation?

No, you are a liar because you told three lies in one post.

Lie #1

now the Baptists believe they are the only true religion

Lie #2

....a page out of the mormon doctrine....

Lie #3

seems there might only be 2 of you in the bridal party!

If you don't lie you will not be called on it. When you do lie, you will be called on it. Period. Get over it and get on with your life.

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
Origin of the Church
Our Lord said: “I will build My church” (Matt. 16:18). He did not say that He would continue to add to something already in existence, but that He would do something not yet begun. ......
Now, you may receive the truth with gladness or you will do what most briders do and ignore the plain truth about the church in favor of sensationalism. It is better to have your ecclesiology based in the sure Scripture than some hopeless system that depends on history (even thought that doesn't favor the briders position). I wonder which one it will be?

ERROR:..
Your initial statement is non-sequitur.
Since this is the thesis for your parabola; the subsequent continuum of rhetorical logic is introverted and convoluted.
1)Standardized syntax does not support the conclusionary statement as given.
2)Verified lexiconography of the original dialect infers no support for the translation commentary as related in this context.
3)Because of inaccurate solution configuration; the rhetorical equation is an inequality which tends to produce the congruent inequality.
4)Verified historical data summates the parabola with data identified from test periods subsequent to the primary time-space continuum expressed in the initial statement.
Having said all of that , let me put it plainly. You have not and can not prove any of your statements using Scripture as the ONLY RULE for faith and practice. It is more sensational to get every and any one into the Church, the Bride and Heaven than accept the plain and simple Bible truth on the subjects.
Also, I'm very familiar with your type of doctrine. I used to teach it as a Roman Catholic, Jesuit seminarian! Believe me this type of thinking and teaching comes straight from the Vatican. Roman Catholic Church means Roman Universal Church.
So congradulations; welcome to the Great Whore.
Your brother
John

 

[Bro. John Willis]

Originally posted by rsr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> ... started by anyone not baptized by John the Baptist or someone baptized by him and by extension down to present times, ...

Do I understand this correctly: Are you tracing some type of apostolic succession back to John the Baptist?</font>[/QUOTE]No. Apostolic succession is the Roman Catholic answer and refute to Baptist Perpetuity. Apostolic succession says that all of the Popes are direct lineal successors of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, and all bishops in union with the Pope/Holy See (Rome) are the successors of the apostles. This dogma goes further by stating that the Pope with the bishops in union with him form the Magisteriuum Ecclesiastorium the highest teaching body in the church. All pronouncements from this group MUST be believed and adhered to under pain of mortal sin, censure, excommunication and in countries that have Papal Treaties, death.
This point in Perpetuity only states what the Bible clearly states and shows. That all baptisms originated with John the Baptist, even that of Our Lord and all of the 12 Apostles. Notice in John 4 that Jesus did not personally baptize anyone,but His disciples. This was so there would be no confusion on where baptism came from. The same is true today. Ask yourself why would God go through all of this trouble only to "junk it" at the earliest opportunity? Doesn't make sense does it? He must have had a reason. This is His way of letting us know in open plain view who are His and who ain't. If a person will not follow The Lord in the baptism that He said "..fulfills all righteousness...", how can that same person claim to wear the righteousness proscribed for the Bride of Christ? Think about it.

Your brother
John

 

[Carly33]

Cassidy for someone so learned , why can't you recognize sarcasm when you see it.....

If you perceive me as a liar, you would be the first. I apologize if I gave you that perception.

You obviously think teaching your views means browbeating the ones that disagree..

....I don't take as much issue with your belief as I do with your personal attack mode...and I have seen it on other sites....directed toward other people.

You need to examine your methods.The bible says to forgive so that I will do...but I think any chance of a civilized debate are nil to none. I'm not interested in you slandering me or attacking me any further.

I am a born again believer and a child of God. I believe in the literal interpretation of scripture and the inerrancy of it. I am a baptist. No matter who is the bride, you have to live with me in eternity....get used to it.

 

[Daniel David]

John, you will have to do better than that. You failed to deal with all the passages given. Interpretation is a key aspect of Bible study. You gave the wrong information regarding the Matthew 16:18 passage. Everyone acknowledges that Jesus was speaking future. You would have to invent your own greek text to support your statements. Some friendly advice: avoid theological inbreeding. The only ones who postulate this error are the briders. As I said before, ignorance is not a point of view.

The Matthew 16:18 passage has little bearing on the fact that the body of Christ began at Pentecost. Again, you failed to deal with all passages listed. The reason is because your error would come to the light.

Your sad attempt at linking me with the whore of Babylon is noted. You would have to say I am lost, for the whore is against the saints of God.

I am glad you are no longer a catholic, the only problem now is that you have continued the false teachings about the church. The church is not the authority believers follow. Believers make up the church. The church is to submit to Christ. Christ is submitted to by following the Scriptures. Briders don't follow the Scripture, they elevate the church to a position it was never intended to be in. Shame really.

Do you believe in the deity of Christ & virgin birth? Does that make you a catholic? Hello! Similarity in belief doesn't have to mean that they are equal. We believe that God the Father is eternal. Oh no, does that mean we are JWs? Of course not. Just because I believe in the universal church, doesn't mean I am catholic or even pro-catholic. I don't think they are saved. I don't think they would want to associate with me. They are an unregenerate group of religious people on their way to hell.

I am glad to see you are up to date on modern debate tactics though. Name calling is very convincing.