Are People who "used" to be a Christian still saved?

[bonniej]

I have been on another forum - one that is full of atheist. I had never encountered but one atheist in my life time and that was as a teenager. But these guys are ruthless. Most have said that they used to believe or they used to be a Christian but after in depth study, decided that the Bible was too contradictory and didn't make sense or was "illogical" so they decided they didn't believe it any more. So my question is, if they really accepted Christ as their Savior but they say that now they no longer believe there is a God - are they saved? I believe in once saved always saved. I don't believe you can give back your salvation. The Bible tells us that there is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God so what of their salvation - do you think they are or are not saved. I'm interested to know what someone else thinks.

 

[dianetavegia]

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They were never saved.

 

[JonathanDT]

I used to think once saved always saved. Now I'm not so sure. I'm leaning towards being able to reject your salvation. While nothing can "pluck" us out of Christ's hand, I'm not sure sure that we can't jump out of our own free will.

 

[just-want-peace]

Most have said that they used to believe or they used to be a Christian but after in depth study, decided that the Bible was too contradictory and didn't make sense or was "illogical" so they decided they didn't believe it any more.

emphasis mine


Isa 55:8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says Jehovah.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.

What it amounts to is that these people simply think that they are smarter than God!! This kind of thing happens when you decide to not take God at His word & start trying to find the "spiritual" meaning in it all.

They are in for a very rude awakening some day.

 

[Phillip]

Bottom line, based on SBC Faith and Message.

If they were truly saved, they still are.

To doubt their salvation is a judgement that only God can make. God only knows what they have committed to.

The judgement of God will end the debate.

 

[mprivett]

"And we know that God causes all things to work for good to those who are the called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Romans 8:28-30

Those He calls He glorifies. No one who is in this golden chain of redemption can ever fall out of the golden chain of redemption. The citation of 1 John 2:19 is right on. You do not lose your salvation.

I would add that the active participant in salvation is God, not man, so we do and cannot jump out of salvation out of our own free will. Salvation is of God's free will, not man's.

 

[Dale]

It would make sense that if it is our will that chooses God, then we could leave God by our choice..However, since it is God that raises us out of our state of spiritual death....then it is not ours to leave.

As others have said, If they were, they are but they probably never were.

 

[swaimj]

In II Tim 2, Paul speaks of Hymenaeus and Philetus who "strayed concerning the truth". Then Paul comments, "Nevertheless, the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his."" From Paul's comment, I conclude that it is possible that Hy and Phi were actually saved, but it is not certain. I think that is what we have to say about anyone who is a Christian and then walks away. They may be saved, but we can not be certain.

 

[gb93433]

I have encountered many of them. Each person I have encountered has approached Christianity solely on an intellectual level. However, I have found none of them to have actually exhaust all of their intellectual avenues in finding the truth. I have talked and written them expresssing the holes in their reasons and theology. They are set in their ways and are not open to looking at other documentation either. I have found none of them to be open to reading the material I give them. They think they have exhausted all of the reasons for faith and proven them wrong. But what I find is they have not even come close. They simply do not want to go any further.

They are like anyone else who is deceived.

 

[Phillip]

God adopts us if we accept His Son. Adoption makes him our Father. You cannot undo your parent. Just a thought. . .

But, I do believe that if a person turns into a hard athiest such as the one mentioned at the beginning of this thread, that I personally would have some doubt that they were saved in the first place. But, then again, only God knows.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Can one who had faith in God lose faith? That's a fair question. Have you considered the Parable of the Sower where the good seed fell on rocky ground, sprouted up but at the first heat withered and died. Or the Good seed the fell on weedy ground, sprouted only to get choked out by the cares of the world. And that which fell on hard ground and the birds came and ate it all up. But the seed the fell on Good ground produced abundantly more than was lost on the other ground!

Have you read in scriptures where God writes our names in the book of life when we come to faith, and 'blots' the names from the book of life of those who no longer have faith?

The book of life is opened and those whose names are not found therein are cast into the lake of fire, the second death. However, Jesus told us in John 3:18 that whoever believes in him is not judged, but whoever does not believe is judge by their own unbelief.

So can a person who once had faith and the promise of everlasting life, lose that everlasting life? Yes!

 

[Phillip]

For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever should believeth in Him shall have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Read other passages regarding everlasting life.

When we are saved, we HAVE everlasting life, it doesn't say, we might as long as we don't loose faith, we might as long as we don't sin too much.

With your idea there is no defined place where a person looses his/her salvation.

Seed planted does not produce until Fruit is produced. Once you have "fruit" you have salvation. The seed represents the gospel. If the seed never grows up and produces "fruit" then the salvation never existed.

What specific scripture are you referring to where He blots a name out of the Book of Life?

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by Phillip:
God adopts us if we accept His Son. Adoption makes him our Father. You cannot undo your parent. Just a thought. . .

But, I do believe that if a person turns into a hard athiest such as the one mentioned at the beginning of this thread, that I personally would have some doubt that they were saved in the first place. But, then again, only God knows.

Agreed; Diane mentioned 1John 2:9 above. It is not (there, nor, I submit, anywhere) "They were of us at one time but went out.
Glad you mentioned Adoption. It is my understanding that it is called adoption because translaters don't have a better word for it. The closest rendering we can come up with is the much stronger term, "Son Placing". It is as-if we were literal sons! This is what the Lord Jesus accomplished for us.
We are also referred to as sheep, and the Lord Jesus is very clear when He said His sheep WILL NOT follow a stranger. I can only conclude that this means the true Christian will not fall for the Mormons, J.W.'s, Benny Hinn, etc. Nor listen to the devil that "there is no God".
My thoughts.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally posted by bonnie56:
I have been on another forum - one that is full of atheist. I had never encountered but one atheist in my life time and that was as a teenager. But these guys are ruthless. Most have said that they used to believe or they used to be a Christian but after in depth study, decided that the Bible was too contradictory and didn't make sense or was "illogical" so they decided they didn't believe it any more. So my question is, if they really accepted Christ as their Savior but they say that now they no longer believe there is a God - are they saved? I believe in once saved always saved. I don't believe you can give back your salvation. The Bible tells us that there is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God so what of their salvation - do you think they are or are not saved. I'm interested to know what someone else thinks.

Bonnie,
it is impossible to know Him and trhen not know Him. The passage in 1 John 2 that Diane has posted says it all. many people claim to be saved and yet they have no real personal relationship with the lord. Yes they do believe in Him, but they do not know Him and when they leave the proof of them never being saved comes to light. Email me or Pm me the board address and I will take a srtoll over there and perhaps engage in some conversation with these guys.

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by JonathanDT:
I used to think once saved always saved. Now I'm not so sure. I'm leaning towards being able to reject your salvation. While nothing can "pluck" us out of Christ's hand, I'm not sure sure that we can't jump out of our own free will.

Hello Jonathan

I do not believe in the "once saved always saved" doctrine. I believe that being a Christian is a fight of every day (is this one of the reasons for Carpe Diem?) and that we only win our salvation IF we are faithful to Christ right up to the last of our breaths.

If we were ever to deny him or become unbelievers, well in that case we would be no better than the other unbelievers whether they ever believed once or never believed at all.

You might be interested in finding out about the Christian Resistance, these things are clearly explained there: http://www.christianresistance.com

Thanks
Corinne

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Bottom line, based on SBC Faith and Message.

If they were truly saved, they still are.

To doubt their salvation is a judgement that only God can make. God only knows what they have committed to.

The judgement of God will end the debate.

We are not judging but theoretizing only: a Christian who suddenly denies Christ and becomes an unbeliever, and dies before finding his faith again, will NOT be saved, even if he was in a state of potential salvation from the day he became a Christian to the day he denied Christ.

Corinne
http://www.christianresistance.com

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by mprivett:
"And we know that God causes all things to work for good to those who are the called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Romans 8:28-30

Those He calls He glorifies. No one who is in this golden chain of redemption can ever fall out of the golden chain of redemption. The citation of 1 John 2:19 is right on. You do not lose your salvation.

I would add that the active participant in salvation is God, not man, so we do and cannot jump out of salvation out of our own free will. Salvation is of God's free will, not man's.

But you are not saved until you are actually dead! While you are alive you are in a state of potential salvation you do not know if you are going to remain a Christian all your life. To have absolute confidence that you will is OK, but we must be humble and acknowledge that we live in a world of sin and there is always a possibility that we can fall and fail. This is why we must live one day at a time, and make sure that day ends with us still in that state of potential salvation. If we believe to the end, no problem, we are then effectively saved in the after life. But if we were to become unbelievers, lose faith, then in my opinion, we would lose our salvation. Only God knows which ones of us will effectively be saved. As the Bible says, there are a lot of people called, but few are saved.

Corinne

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by Phillip:
God adopts us if we accept His Son. Adoption makes him our Father. You cannot undo your parent. Just a thought. . .

But, I do believe that if a person turns into a hard athiest such as the one mentioned at the beginning of this thread, that I personally would have some doubt that they were saved in the first place. But, then again, only God knows.

Our faith and our actions (including our sins) determine, in my opinion, what will happen to us. To say that a Christian who believed might have never been saved in the first place throws a lot of contempt (in my humble opinion again) on the whole concept of salvation: oh you are a bad person now, so God's work on you when you were such a good Christian just meant nothing.

We cannot judge whether someone is a Christian or not, we can only have an opinion about that person (that he or she is a good , or a bad Christian) because we see the fruits from that person's life (good or bad ones), we hear that person speak (good or bad words) and we see that person commit sins (or not). This opinion we have of someone is the only thing we can go by, as we do not really know if we are meeting that person in a bad period of her/his life (in which case he or she would commit more sins than usual and look more like a bad Christian than like a good Christian) or in a good period (in which case that person might have been a big sinner and is now sinning less, with a more fruitful life than before). Everything we know is subjective and we never have the whole picture about someone. Only God does.

This is why I believe that he has given us through Christ the possibility of redemption and salvation, and that he has also given us, with freewill, the chance for us to make mistakes in our life (sins), but also the promess that if we make the single most important choice of our life (choose Christ as our God and Saviour) then we are saved when we leave our bodies.

Salvation is a grace but it is also hard work. Every day we must wake up and thank God, pray to him in the name of Christ, and every night we must try to go to bed knowing that we have not failed Christ.

Corinne

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
Can one who had faith in God lose faith? That's a fair question. Have you considered the Parable of the Sower where the good seed fell on rocky ground, sprouted up but at the first heat withered and died. Or the Good seed the fell on weedy ground, sprouted only to get choked out by the cares of the world. And that which fell on hard ground and the birds came and ate it all up. But the seed the fell on Good ground produced abundantly more than was lost on the other ground!

Have you read in scriptures where God writes our names in the book of life when we come to faith, and 'blots' the names from the book of life of those who no longer have faith?

The book of life is opened and those whose names are not found therein are cast into the lake of fire, the second death. However, Jesus told us in John 3:18 that whoever believes in him is not judged, but whoever does not believe is judge by their own unbelief.

So can a person who once had faith and the promise of everlasting life, lose that everlasting life? Yes!

But only God can recognize the seeds, you or I cannot. As for the names written in the Book of Life, you cannot read them anymore than I can.

Therefore it seems obvious to me than there are Christians in this world who genuinely believe - for now - but who will fall and fail, and become that bad seed the Bible is talking about.

Bad seed is not only about unbelievers, it is also about Christians who deny and exploit Christ.

Corinne

 

[corinne]

Originally posted by freeatlast:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bonnie56:
I have been on another forum - one that is full of atheist. I had never encountered but one atheist in my life time and that was as a teenager. But these guys are ruthless. Most have said that they used to believe or they used to be a Christian but after in depth study, decided that the Bible was too contradictory and didn't make sense or was "illogical" so they decided they didn't believe it any more. So my question is, if they really accepted Christ as their Savior but they say that now they no longer believe there is a God - are they saved? I believe in once saved always saved. I don't believe you can give back your salvation. The Bible tells us that there is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God so what of their salvation - do you think they are or are not saved. I'm interested to know what someone else thinks.

Bonnie,
it is impossible to know Him and trhen not know Him. The passage in 1 John 2 that Diane has posted says it all. many people claim to be saved and yet they have no real personal relationship with the lord. Yes they do believe in Him, but they do not know Him and when they leave the proof of them never being saved comes to light. Email me or Pm me the board address and I will take a srtoll over there and perhaps engage in some conversation with these guys. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes it is possible to know Jesus Christ and then not know him. The Bible gives us the clear and obvious example of Peter, who denied knowing Jesus three times. It is a warning to all of us. We can fail like Peter did. What counts is that we go back on the right track after failing, after sinning. God grants us that grace: we make mistakes but if we repent from these mistakes through Jesus Christ, then we are cleansed from sin and error, and on the way to salvation.

Corinne