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Daniel David
New Member
AVL1984, it is obvious that you don't understand my post. I have been through this concept the entire time on the Baptist board.
How could you possibly read a works based system into what I was saying?
How could you possibly read a works based system into what I was saying?
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WOW, I couldn't disagree more. I grew up in a Christian home as well, and I don't remember when I first truly believed. Who cares. I am not saved because I did or believed something in the past, I am saved because I trust in Jesus right now. I have assurance because I know, this very second, who my redeemer is. Perhaps you ancedotal experience is different since you admit yourself you never truly believed until you were thirty. Its harder to put a finger on when it developed between the ages of 8 and 10.
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Salvation is about repentance. This was the reason for the Son of God to sacrifice himself upon the cross and shed his innocent blood. This is the gospel. There is a need for repentance in order to TRUST and BELIEVE that what Christ Jesus did, does and will do for you is the truth. One must recognize and REPENT of thier sins against our Holy and Righteous God, for the cross to mean anything and for us to EXPERIENCE the peace that surpasseth all understanding. One must experience this, in order to KNOW and understand that they have been forgiven. If one does not understand this vital and important truth of the cross, then how is it you can be saved? How can you pick up your cross and follow him? Is it really only that you believe Jesus was who he said He was, and who the apostles said/witnessed he was? If so, then there would not have been any reason whatsoever for Jesus Christ the Son of God to come in the first place and shed his innocent blood, as God has put it in all men to know he is God, and without excuse. The reason for the cross, was not to bring to us faith, but to bring salvation from OUR SINS AGAINST OUR HOLY GOD - forgiveness of them and cleansing our guilty conscience. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. If we have faith in this truth, we will REPENT OF IT and DESIRE God's mercy and forgiveness. I really cannot believe what I am reading on these threads, the baptist threads at that. We sure are witnessing a great falling away, as God has forewarned us would come in the last days just prior to his return.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
WOW, I couldn't disagree more. I grew up in a Christian home as well, and I don't remember when I first truly believed. Who cares. I am not saved because I did or believed something in the past, I am saved because I trust in Jesus right now. I have assurance because I know, this very second, who my redeemer is. Perhaps you ancedotal experience is different since you admit yourself you never truly believed until you were thirty. Its harder to put a finger on when it developed between the ages of 8 and 10.
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Salvation is about repentance. This was the reason for the Son of God to sacrifice himself upon the cross and shed his innocent blood. This is the gospel. There is a need for repentance in order to TRUST and BELIEVE that what Christ Jesus did, does and will do for you is the truth. One must recognize and REPENT of thier sins against our Holy and Righteous God, for the cross to mean anything and for us to EXPERIENCE the peace that surpasseth all understanding. One must experience this, in order to KNOW and understand that they have been forgiven. If one does not understand this vital and important truth of the cross, then how is it you can be saved? How can you pick up your cross and follow him? Is it really only that you believe Jesus was who he said He was, and who the apostles said/witnessed he was? If so, then there would not have been any reason whatsoever for Jesus Christ the Son of God to come in the first place and shed his innocent blood, as God has put it in all men to know he is God, and without excuse. The reason for the cross, was not to bring to us faith, but to bring salvation from OUR SINS AGAINST OUR HOLY GOD - forgiveness of them and cleansing our guilty conscience. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. If we have faith in this truth, we will REPENT OF IT and DESIRE God's mercy and forgiveness. I really cannot believe what I am reading on these threads, the baptist threads at that. We sure are witnessing a great falling away, as God has forewarned us would come in the last days just prior to his return.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Hopefully tomorrow everyone will wake up a believer and go to bed a believer. Whew....Corinne, you say that Michelle is boasting of her salvation, I'm sure she wakes up every morning and goes to bed knowing her future in Christ is secure. How is that boasting, when you say that you wake up and by what You do and say is what is keeping you? You seem to have it backwards. We give God all the glory, not ourselves by what we do or don't do. God keeps us, not ourselves. Do I think I'm special, you bet I do, I am an heir to the King of Kings, I have an inheritance in Glory. The Bible says we can know that we are saved. What do you do with Hebrews 6-4:6? To beleive that your salvation could be lost, by that verse it says you cannot be saved again.
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Daniel David
New Member
Corinne, although I don't agree with Michelle's understanding of salvation, God's hate is not to be thought of as some kind of malicious anger. It is perfect abhorance of something. This involves sin and people (I can give the Bible references if you really need them). It is his hatred of evil that provokes his justice and his love of his creation that provokes his mercy. Both are equally there.
Daniel David
New Member
Btw, there is no such thing as a person who used to be a Christian.
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
Oh, I understand it well enough. But, I believe we are saved, totally at the point of turning to and accepting Christ if it is genuine. I don't believe it is "a process". I believe there is a growth process that bears out our salvation, but I don't call this "being saved". I believe we will go to be with Christ when we die. I don't call this "will be saved". I'm already saved.
Daniel David
New Member
AVL1984, you have a very immature view of salvation. You have not dealt with about, um, 75% of the New Testament if you really believe your last post.
Daniel David
New Member
Btw, you don't understand my position.
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Those who CHOOSE to get baptized in this mode see themselves as born again, but they must first accept to be baptized. AS Baptists, you and I believe that in the Eucharist Jesus Christ is not really present (contrary to the Catholics).
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First of all, water baptism doesn't save. One who is baptized with water, is only showing forth that which has taken place within/spiritually. It is a symbolic act. It is not us, who make the choice to be baptized. It is the Lord's leading that brings one to water baptism, in obediance to his word. I did not choose to be spiritually baptized, it happened when I repented of my sins, and recieved forgiveness of those sins through my faith in Jesus Christ and his shed blood, by God's grace. I then asked the Lord to come dwell in me, and lead me in my life. He is the one who led me to be baptized, it was not a choice I made of my own, and outside of his will.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Those who CHOOSE to get baptized in this mode see themselves as born again, but they must first accept to be baptized. AS Baptists, you and I believe that in the Eucharist Jesus Christ is not really present (contrary to the Catholics).
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First of all, water baptism doesn't save. One who is baptized with water, is only showing forth that which has taken place within/spiritually. It is a symbolic act. It is not us, who make the choice to be baptized. It is the Lord's leading that brings one to water baptism, in obediance to his word. I did not choose to be spiritually baptized, it happened when I repented of my sins, and recieved forgiveness of those sins through my faith in Jesus Christ and his shed blood, by God's grace. I then asked the Lord to come dwell in me, and lead me in my life. He is the one who led me to be baptized, it was not a choice I made of my own, and outside of his will.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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I note with comfort that your beloved George Bush and Dick Cheney, who you seem to revere as a model Christians, are both Methodist. I found this on a Methodist site:
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I do not have this same understanding of these men. They are both reprobate. Many christians have decieved themselves, by allowing such men to decieve them. It just goes to show, that many christians today are not obeying the Lord and his commands. We are to test the spirits if they are of God, to prove all things, and that we shall know them by their fruits. Many today have been duped, with and by those who continually throw in others faces the verse of scripture where Jesus said judge not, lest ye be judged, taking this out of context of the whole cannon of scripture. In fact, we are to judge all things by the scriptures themselves. George Bush is not a born again christian, and if you looked to his fruits, and tested his spirit, against scriptural truths, instead of just taking his WORD for it, you all wouldn't be so duped. He is decieving not only you all, but himself also. You are all supporting and praying blessings upon a man who is a skull and bones member, which is satanic, and to which we are told not to pray for, nor give godspeed. He never repented of being part of this secret society, and once a member, always a member. He also gave no warnings and said there was nothing wrong with it. Your beloved born again christian President has also appointed a very liberal man, who believes in abortions to the Supreme Court. He has called revenge upon those we should be reaching out with the gospel of Jesus Christ and bringing war and death to them. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing, and you have all been duped by him. You will one day have to account for supporting such a man.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I note with comfort that your beloved George Bush and Dick Cheney, who you seem to revere as a model Christians, are both Methodist. I found this on a Methodist site:
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I do not have this same understanding of these men. They are both reprobate. Many christians have decieved themselves, by allowing such men to decieve them. It just goes to show, that many christians today are not obeying the Lord and his commands. We are to test the spirits if they are of God, to prove all things, and that we shall know them by their fruits. Many today have been duped, with and by those who continually throw in others faces the verse of scripture where Jesus said judge not, lest ye be judged, taking this out of context of the whole cannon of scripture. In fact, we are to judge all things by the scriptures themselves. George Bush is not a born again christian, and if you looked to his fruits, and tested his spirit, against scriptural truths, instead of just taking his WORD for it, you all wouldn't be so duped. He is decieving not only you all, but himself also. You are all supporting and praying blessings upon a man who is a skull and bones member, which is satanic, and to which we are told not to pray for, nor give godspeed. He never repented of being part of this secret society, and once a member, always a member. He also gave no warnings and said there was nothing wrong with it. Your beloved born again christian President has also appointed a very liberal man, who believes in abortions to the Supreme Court. He has called revenge upon those we should be reaching out with the gospel of Jesus Christ and bringing war and death to them. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing, and you have all been duped by him. You will one day have to account for supporting such a man.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Daniel David
New Member
Yet you deny the threefold nature of salvation. I guess it isn't the biblical position after all. I will post more later. I have to go somewhere.
Oh, I understand it well enough. But, I believe we are saved, totally at the point of turning to and accepting Christ if it is genuine. I don't believe it is "a process". I believe there is a growth process that bears out our salvation, but I don't call this "being saved". I believe we will go to be with Christ when we die. I don't call this "will be saved". I'm already saved. </font>[/QUOTE]Good point AVL1984, we have talked about this quite a bit at our church and the conclusion is that the very instant the decision is made to accept Christ is the moment of salvation. The sinners prayer, said so often, puts the image into the mind of the person of what they are doing, but is not the moment that the salvation occurs.
Often, salvation for those who already have an understand how it works happens the moment they let go and start walking the isle, not after the preacher sits down and talks with them.
I am NOT saying any kind of work (such as walking the isle) is required. I am only using that as an example of what the person might be doing at the time of salvation.
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Good point AVL1984, we have talked about this quite a bit at our church and the conclusion is that the very instant the decision is made to accept Christ is the moment of salvation. The sinners prayer, said so often, puts the image into the mind of the person of what they are doing, but is not the moment that the salvation occurs.
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I strongly disagree. It is not acceptance of CHrist. It is rather acknowledgement of our sins and need of salvation. It is the faith we have in God and what He has done for us, and our desire to repent of those sins. We are saved once we have been forgiven of our sins that we have come to this recognition or acknowledgement of sins. No amount of sinners prayers mean anything, until that person acknowledges and repents of those sins against God. Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, we are then given peace from God about this. When you forgive someone, that someone will know by you, that they are forgiven by you. It is something experienced and known. When you acknowledge to someone that you are genuinely sorry for the wrong you have done to them, they will recognize this apology as genuine and forgive you, if indeed it is, as thier words will match also their actions afterwards. Some do not, however God is not like the man. You do not accept a gift. A gift is given freely and you acknowledge it and open it right up if you are interested in it. If you are not, then you ignore it, but the gift has still been given. It just sits there gnawing at you to open it. It is not something accepted, as it has already been given. One must acknowledge the gift and open it up, instead of ignoring it and leaving it to sit there and collect dust, not ever knowing what is in that gift.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Good point AVL1984, we have talked about this quite a bit at our church and the conclusion is that the very instant the decision is made to accept Christ is the moment of salvation. The sinners prayer, said so often, puts the image into the mind of the person of what they are doing, but is not the moment that the salvation occurs.
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I strongly disagree. It is not acceptance of CHrist. It is rather acknowledgement of our sins and need of salvation. It is the faith we have in God and what He has done for us, and our desire to repent of those sins. We are saved once we have been forgiven of our sins that we have come to this recognition or acknowledgement of sins. No amount of sinners prayers mean anything, until that person acknowledges and repents of those sins against God. Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins, we are then given peace from God about this. When you forgive someone, that someone will know by you, that they are forgiven by you. It is something experienced and known. When you acknowledge to someone that you are genuinely sorry for the wrong you have done to them, they will recognize this apology as genuine and forgive you, if indeed it is, as thier words will match also their actions afterwards. Some do not, however God is not like the man. You do not accept a gift. A gift is given freely and you acknowledge it and open it right up if you are interested in it. If you are not, then you ignore it, but the gift has still been given. It just sits there gnawing at you to open it. It is not something accepted, as it has already been given. One must acknowledge the gift and open it up, instead of ignoring it and leaving it to sit there and collect dust, not ever knowing what is in that gift.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle,
I have agreed with all of your posts, until you stated that Pres. Bush isn't a Christian. Now, with that being said I cannot say for sure that he is, I don't know his heart. I know that he has mentioned his faith in God many times, even though he knew he would be critized for it. Why would he, if he wasn't a Christian, jeopardize himself? I am surprised that you would speak so violently about him and are so sure about his salvation, or lack of. I suppose since you have spoken about him in this manner, you were for the "God Fearing" Kerry?
One thing I do agree with you is that I thought that this was a Baptist board, I am shocked at what people are writing back and forth, and now I am regarding your attack on the President of the United States. I don't think you will ever convince anyone about your position on salvation with that type of an attack.
I have agreed with all of your posts, until you stated that Pres. Bush isn't a Christian. Now, with that being said I cannot say for sure that he is, I don't know his heart. I know that he has mentioned his faith in God many times, even though he knew he would be critized for it. Why would he, if he wasn't a Christian, jeopardize himself? I am surprised that you would speak so violently about him and are so sure about his salvation, or lack of. I suppose since you have spoken about him in this manner, you were for the "God Fearing" Kerry?
One thing I do agree with you is that I thought that this was a Baptist board, I am shocked at what people are writing back and forth, and now I am regarding your attack on the President of the United States. I don't think you will ever convince anyone about your position on salvation with that type of an attack.