Are Reformed Baptists really Baptists

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is good that you found a church where you can worship the Lord, and not constantly be irritated or worried about theological doctrine. That is one of the reasons I am glad to be a Baptist. Each church is autonomous, and sets their policies. You do not have to worry about a hierarchy handing down proclomations for all churches. What I do not understand, is with the freedom we have, why would you waste time worrying about a church that does not see things like you do? It is kind of like the verse in the Bible telling you to dust off your shoes and move on.

You seem to be hung up on the doctrines of sovereignty and grace. There are churches that emphasize both sides. I serve in a church that is about half and half. We have a great fellowship, and there are no bad feelings about the issue. Personally, I am on the reformed side, but would not serve in a church that insisted on that belief or any other belief, other than Jesus Christ is Lord, God, Savior, and King, that the Bible is the Inspired Word of God, that our main reason to be here is to tell others about the Gospel, and Biblical baptism. I may have left out some, but you get that idea.

I stay away from local churches that major in Bible versions, only certain types of end time theology, etc. May the Lord bless you in your new found ministry.

To answer your question directly, when I married my wife over 20 years now, I was a lapsed Catholic & she was Reformed (Scottish from the old sod where they are all Covenant Reformed people) so my wife led me down that path of Reformed Theology. I accepted it as the true faith & tried to build my life on it....that is until I discovered things detestable about the people I was later dealing with. The bottom line is there is bondage to religion out there & your right, all you need to do is recognize it & move on. The interesting thing is that it was my brother who was patient with me & pulled me outa there (Being a Baptist Minister). Also, after seeing what my wife & I went through, her entire family has renounced them & moved to churches that are much more humble and use the bible as their primary reference point. So I guess that having gone through it all, practicing discernment & exposing them has great value in finding the true Christ & His Kingdom. Now here is some irony for you," what the English could not do for years i.e. convert my wifes family from reformed faith by coercion, persecution etc; the reformers did by themselves through their legalism. Thanks Guys!! LOL:godisgood:

 

[HankD]

Are Reformed Baptists really Baptists?

We need to find a middle ground tool to defeat doctrinal error.

Confessions, Creeds, Statements of faith, etc... are those tools.

They can be referred to as "necessary evils" or perhaps better yet "necessary weapons of defense".

It is evident that we are not all "of the same mind in the Lord".

These defenses can be temporal, as error crops up in the passage of time or geographic or to defeat nonsensical movements.

Also, we may not readily know the history of a local church and whether "ravenous wolves" had entered in at one time, with the adopted creed, confession, statement of faith, etc, a "necessary evil" of defense.

So we identify these "necessary evils" of defenses by the shibboleths we hang on them.

When we see the phrase "reformed" or "charismatic" in the context of a local church its a kind of short cut ID to know where they stand and whether (in the event of disagreement) we can tolerate the disagreement and fellowship there.

Personally, I would "test the waters" of a reformed church before I felt comfortable with regular fellowship but wouldn't even visit a charismatic church.

It has been this way from the beginning with the church(es) battle with the infiltration/influence of error - gnosticism, arianism to today's war with the influences of neo-orthodoxy, neo-evangelicalism, post modernism, secular humanism, etc, etc...

So, yes, of course (assuming adherence to the distinctives) "reformed" Baptists are Baptists , the confession(s) being a declaration in human terms of where they stand. If one is in disagreement and can't find enough self-tolerance (or local church permission) to fellowship, then exercise "soul liberty" and relocate (ideally in a quiet manner).


HankD

 

[Ruiz]

The "No creed but the Bible" is a Creed which condemns creeds. Such people who voice this creed should say, "no creeds but the Bible and this one creed." To hold to "no creed but the Bible" is a self contradictory statement, as it is a creed condemning creeds.

We would be better off saying, "No creed except Biblical Creeds."

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I doubt what you have posted all throughout this thread. The answers you say they gave you do not square with the confession of faith;

This is the biblical teaching on this issue.
You did not believe in the teaching when you went into the church,and you do not believe it yet. That is the truth of it. You did not get the answers you wanted to get,on this topic, the atonement, the sabbath. so now you speak evil of the brethren.
Be honest with it and admit you do not now or have never believed these truths. You did not go to learn,but to resist.
What you say were "evasive" answers were probably not answers you wanted to get, so you make as if the "reformed know it alls" as you put it caused all manner of evil in your home. They are not here to answer your charges,and perhaps if we could have been a fly on the wall to hear these discussions we would have a different understanding then what you have offered.
Post your positions here,and I am sure the RB that are here can answer your posts,without being evasive. as a matter of fact, many have already started to suggest the same thing in the previous posts

Icon, I think you hit the nail on the head. Everything this man is writing indicates an agenda. He did not go to that church to learn but to resist, and I would add, oppose.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with certain theology, et. But to go into a congregation and just fight with the pastors and some sort of pretended "reformer" themselves, then walk out and act "holy" is reprehensible.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

EWT:

To answer your question directly, when I married my wife over 20 years now, I was a lapsed Catholic & she was Reformed (Scottish from the old sod where they are all Covenant Reformed people) so my wife led me down that path of Reformed Theology. I accepted it as the true faith & tried to build my life on it....

Since you have come to these boards to condemn and fight against certain Christians, I am going to respond to a few things of yours.

You accepted "Reformed Theology" as "the truth faith" and you tried to "build your life on it" ??? Really? I know of no one who has done this. What we as Christians do, whether Reformed in our theology or no, is build our life on Christ Jesus and His Word. This is the Rock. If you precieved a Reformed Church as something to build your life on, then I am glad for your sake you left it and went somewhere to build your life of Christ Alone.

that is until I discovered things detestable about the people I was later dealing with.

And what should happen should a person find something detestable about you? I am appalled that you would posture this is your stand, maligning your brethren and referring to God's heritiage as "detestable" Remember, to their Master they stand or fall, and God is able to make them stand.

The bottom line is there is bondage to religion out there & your right, all you need to do is recognize it & move on. The interesting thing is that it was my brother who was patient with me & pulled me outa there (Being a Baptist Minister).

I suggest both to you and your brother that you make distinctions between true religion and false. Every church, baptist or not, can fall into legalism. It's a danger for us all and we should prayerfully be guarded against it. But there is true religion which the SCRIPTURES praise, namely, James 1:27

Also, after seeing what my wife & I went through, her entire family has renounced them & moved to churches that are much more humble and use the bible as their primary reference point.

This is wholly absurd. How can you renounce what is written in some creeds. That is insane in my opinion, because the creeds are statements that entirely biblical, declaring what the Bible teaches. And furthermore, there is NO Reformed church I know of that does not hold the Bible as their primary reference point.

So I guess that having gone through it all, practicing discernment & exposing them has great value in finding the true Christ & His Kingdom.

This statement is suggestive that those who are part of a Reformed church do not have the true Christ or His Kingdom. If this is your stand, then I would believe you have joined a cult. Your Reforemd brethren are just that, your brothers. And your command by Jesus Christ as His disciple is that you love your brethren. But I am wondering concernign you.

Now here is some irony for you," what the English could not do for years i.e. convert my wifes family from reformed faith by coercion, persecution etc; the reformers did by themselves through their legalism.

When did you check your sanity at the door? The papacy no longer, in the main, fights witht he sword but with the pen. And if your family was among a legalistic congregation then they should have left it, but not malign and attack the people...as you are doing. You paint with broad brushes and do err greatly. Are you calling all Reformers legalists? Really? Luther, Calvin, et.

Or recently, Spurgeon, Bunyan and others?

We can have for sure a respectful disagreement with many. But to lay the kind of charges and calumunies that you are laying is disgusting to watch.

And you know what my hunch is...you have jumped from one church, condemning them as legalists and false Christians, to join a cultish independant one that is twice the son of heII you suppose the former to be.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

RP....you are really making me laugh here buddy.....Thanks for verifying everything Ive been saying...lol

 

[Robert Snow]

The problem happened when the minister became evasive when I was asking him questions.

I attended a similar type church over 20 years ago. On the surface they were kind and friendly. But, the preacher would make remarks that caused me to wonder exactly what he was saying. Once I asked the preacher and one of the deacons if they were Calvinistic in doctrine, and they were very evasive in their answer. As the months went on I discovered that they were very hardshell in their beliefs. I left. Later the pastor died and the church pretty much disbanded.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I have no idea what reformed means; I am born again. I haven't read anywhere that Jesus said, "Ye must be reformed", but He did say, "Ye must be born again." I've heard of reformed alcoholics, but what is a reformed Christian?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

RP....you are really making me laugh here buddy.....Thanks for verifying everything Ive been saying...lol

If your referring to me, then I am glad you think its funny. I don't. But it is neither here nor there. This is a discussion board and a debate area, and you have backed down. No problem.

But I get passionate about my brethren in Christ, even those with whom I greatly disagree, when they are despised. At the very least I wanted to expose your hyprocrisy.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I have no idea what reformed means; I am born again. I haven't read anywhere that Jesus said, "Ye must be reformed", but He did say, "Ye must be born again." I've heard of reformed alcoholics, but what is a reformed Christian?

It's not that hard John. It simply refers to the period of the Reformation.

 

[Robert Snow]

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself...

My ways on my worst day are better than your best.

...God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. Luke 18:11

Sorry, wrong translation!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Again Reformed Baptist, your a funny guy. I have noted that you have a propensity for name calling. Hmmm.....

As Ive indicated, I am very happy now, my wife is back to church & all because we were treated lovingly & compassionately by a bunch of good Christians & thats a blessing from God. Period. Do you have anything negative to say about that?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have no idea what reformed means; I am born again. I haven't read anywhere that Jesus said, "Ye must be reformed", but He did say, "Ye must be born again." I've heard of reformed alcoholics, but what is a reformed Christian?

I agree totally Jon. I would suggest the word "Transformed" be used...IMHO.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Again Reformed Baptist, your a funny guy. I have noted that you have a propensity for name calling. Hmmm.....

As Ive indicated, I am very happy now, my wife is back to church & all because we were treated lovingly & compassionately by a bunch of good Christians & thats a blessing from God. Period. Do you have anything negative to say about that?

I am glad that you are reporting that your following Jesus and your wife is also. Thanks to Jesus for that. Just stop falsely accusing your brethren.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Reformed..... Please start listening! As a sales person you should have developed those skills along time ago. Again & for the last time "There are no false accusations in my testimony" & I resent your suggestion & innuendo that there is....simply amazing :BangHead:

 

[gb93433]

"No creed but the bible" was a standard cry of the Campbellites. Sounds good, right. After all, it is exalting God's word over man's.

Now, here's the problem with that view. If someone asks what you believe and you say you believe what the bible teaches, that person will likely say they do too. However, if the conversation continues, you might find that you believe in particular redemption and he doesn't, that you believe God regenerates His children through direct operation of the Holy Ghost and he believes in gospel regeneration, etc. Both of you would say you believe the bible, but it is obvious that you don't agree in your beliefs. This is the essential shortcoming of "no creed but the bible."

If you walked into a church where I preached and asked what we believed, I should be able to point you to a creed, confession, or articles of faith explaining our beliefs.

Actually it is quite easy to point the wrongs in Campbellite theology by using just the Bible. That is not a problem but using one's standard of faith and practice.

I have not seen Lk. 14:33 in any doctrinal statement.

Lk 14:33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions."

Yet what did Jesus teach?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually it is quite easy to point the wrongs in Campbellite theology by using just the Bible. That is not a problem but using one's standard of faith and practice.

I have not seen Lk. 14:33 in any doctrinal statement.

Lk 14:33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions."

Yet what did Jesus teach?

Unless you're willing to let go of your self-created ego worlds, you will not see the Kingdom in your midst.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Reformed..... Please start listening! As a sales person you should have developed those skills along time ago. Again & for the last time "There are no false accusations in my testimony" & I resent your suggestion & innuendo that there is....simply amazing :BangHead:

I have listened to you. I have read your words. And you come accross and act rather strange. Also, your words indicate that you believe that we who are reformed/calvinist are not saved.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Unless you're willing to let go of your self-created ego worlds, you will not see the Kingdom in your midst.

You really need to get over yourself and get a grip.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I agree totally Jon. I would suggest the word "Transformed" be used...IMHO.

Then you have no idea what is meant by Reformed. As I told Jon, it simply refers to the Reformation.