Are Roman Catholics Christian ?

There are definitely "former" catholics who are saved (I know some) and although I can't say for sure, I doubt practicing RC's are saved. Their "Supreme Being" is the pope. There are many catholics who are outstanding, clean living individuals but folks who are saved don't pray to Mary - they don't have to.

A friend - Jim

 

Anyone who's accepted Christ is saved, whether they're Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, or card carrying members of the Church of the Blind Chihuahua.

 

w00t w00t!

 

I think the wrong question was asked in this poll. The question might be better asked, "Is Roman Catholic doctrine Christian?" And the answer is no, it is not.

Nevertheless, there are Catholics who read their Bibles and trust in the Jesus of the Bible. As far as anything else goes, God is the Judge.

 

i sorta agree with helens analogy but what i cannot understand is how a real Christian would be able to reconcile all the error in the rc especially when it comes to salvation through sacraments

 

This is true but the question should be more specific: Does the doctrine of the RCC teach what the Scriptures teach about accepting Christ? The answer, without a doubt, is no. A catholic can be saved, to be sure. But not if he knowingly believes what the Catholic church teaches. This should be clear by comparing the doctrine of Scripture with the doctrine of the Church. Differences, among others, are: 1) The complete sufficiency of Christ's once for all work vs. purgatory; 2) The complete sufficiency of Christ's once for all work vs. the mass; 3) the doctrine of imputed righteousness vs. infused righteousness; 3) the conflation of justifying vs. sanctifying grace.

A good work worth reading on this is Sproul's "Faith Alone." He details the differences between evangelical and Catholic doctrine of justification.

 

i cannot understand is how a real Christian would be able to reconcile all the error in the rc especially when it comes to salvation through sacraments
Well, as a Baptist, I can freely admit the shortcomings in our own practices.But one should probably not debate them here.

As a current Baptist, I'm amused at the misconceptions that liturgical churches have about us. Likewise, as a former Catholic, I'm surprised at the misconceptions that my fellow pew warmers have about Catholics. I've heard it said the worship the Pope. I've heard it said that they worship Mary. I've heard it said they worship the sacraments. I've heard they they believe you can work your way into heaven. WHen I was a Catholic, I was taught none of these. In fact, 12 years of Catholic school told me that you've got to accept the Savior Jesus Christ to be assured salvation.

That being said, we Baptists have a certain doctrine. Not everyone agrees with our doctrine, and that is their right. It's entirely possible that our own beliefs about baptism (immersion) are incorrect. We don't know... it's a matter of faith. Now as far as Catholics, they have doctrince which they can support biblically. There is also doctrine which we can refute biblically. Of course, we know from some threads on this board that having those arguenments rarely changes one's mind (take the thread on mutual submission, for example). But bottom line is, someone's gonna disagree with us, and we with them, even amongst individuals.

Whew, I'm getting long winded here. THe bottom line on salvation comes down to one thing: accepting Jesus as your savior. One day, we who have done so will enter into God's glory. We might just be surprise at how many more Catholics, Ltherans, etc, are there. By that same token, we might be surprised how how not as many of own own Baptist friends aren't. Our doctrine, or our lack of doctrine, will neither assure us, nor deny us, salvation. Only acceptance of Christ will do that. The rest is imperfect human interpretation.

I agree with Bro. Curtis on this thread when he said,

You will see Catholics in heaven, maybe not all of them, but you won't see all Baptists there, either.

Who can know ? Only God knows the heart. I will not be the one to say who's saved & who's not.

 

What role does a correct soteriology play in our salvation? If someone confesses with their mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in their heart that God has raised him from the dead, are they saved? Or are they only saved as long as, along with that confession and belief, they have an orthodox, evangelical soteriology?

This was asked before in slightly different words. I would be interested in any thoughts.

 

I think it plays a great role. If someone believes that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead but comes towing a truckload of "good efforts" as merit, they are not saved. I talk to people all the time in this community who believe that Jesus is Lord and that he rose from the dead but they are as lost as a ball in high weeds. You ask them what their basis for believing that they are going to heaven is, they reply that they have been a good person, or as one person told one of our members recently, they had been through enough in this life already.

What you have said is correct theology ... but it is minimalistic ... reductionistic. That is dangerous. There is a "whole counsel of God" and it is all of God. We cannot dispense with it at will.

 

I'll probably regret this post, but here goes.

I think some of you all are on a very slippery slope. It seems to me that some of you are as bad as the Catholics you are condemning for adding things to be saved. Some of you all seem to be saying that a correct intrepretation of scriptures is also necessary for salvation. Have I nailed down what is being said?

Jeff

 

That's a very good question, and you make a really good point. The arguement of "you must accept Jesus as your savior, oh and while you're at it, you may only believe in the following biblical interpretation" is an old one. We believe what we interpret to be correct. I agree with you in that condemning those that interpret differently (so long as acceptance of Christ as Savior is the sole saving point) is often fruitless and divisive, rather than fruitful and unifying.

 

Perhaps we are accountable for just as much as we know, folks. We must become as a little child to enter the kingdom of heaven. I have never seen a little child with a great intellectual understanding of theology.

Jesus created us, loves us, died for us, is our Savior and Redeemer. That's enough if that is all there is. Those of us with more understanding and/or more knowledge are privileged to have it, but what we do with it can be beneficial or harmful. We must recognize that intellect is not required for salvation. Head knowledge can help keep us away from error, but it cannot save us. Only Jesus can save us.

On the other hand, as Romans 1 reminds us, suppressing truth that we are made aware of and, I think, which our minds and hearts understand as truth, is certainly not going to win any brownie points with God.

But is there any one of us who is not still learning? Is there any one of us who can say "I've got it all wrapped up and I understand the full picture." I would venture to say that person is extremely self-deceived! "For now we see through a glass, darkly..."

And since we are all learning, if intellectual understanding is required for salvation, how much of it is enough?

I think that is why Jesus kept reminding us about the children.

 

Two thumbs up, Helen

 

Chose not to vote on the grounds that it was an Un-christian type question,these sort of questions never help,they only bring division.I am tempted to say much more,chose not to on the grounds that it would only cause division.And I believe there are better things to discuss.THINK ABOUT THIS MOST WARS, OR FIGHTS, ARE CAUSED BY RELIGION , POLITICS , MONEY OR SEX.Need I say anymore.YES READ 2TI.2:14
John

 

Actually, John, I think most wars are the result of land grabs or wannagrabs.

 

Mickes, are you saying that you were educated as a Catholic and once was a Catholic, as JohnV?

If you were, I am wondering why the different views of the church.

 

To say we are adding correct interpretation is misleading. We know of Christ only from the Bible so of course correct interpretation is necessary. If someone interprets the Bible as saying that Christ was not really God (such as JWs), then they cannot be saved. John says that "acceptance of Christ as Savior is the sole saving point" is the minimum necessary. However, as said previously, God gave a whole counsel. There is no such "canon within a canon." More to the point however, is that Catholics do not believe that Jesus is the sole saving point as Scripture teaches. They have added to Christ by instituting sacraments, infused righteousness, etc. That is a departure from John's own assertion. Modern popular catholicism has claimed Christ as the sole saving point, but the church in actuality has never repudiated their past teaching. This should not even be a question.

 

Catholics do not believe that Jesus is the sole saving point as Scripture teaches
As a former Catholic, I can tell you that statement is incorrect. But getting back to the main question at hand, anyone, I repeat, anyone, who accepts Christ as their Lord, is saved.

 

Having read the documents, catechism, and history of the doctrine of justification in catholic thought, I can tell you unequivocally that it is true. It has been demonstrated time and time again through their own words. But back to the question at hand, I agree with your last statement. Catholic doctrine doesn't ... and that is what the issue is.