Are Saints Called to Preach/Share the Gospel?

[JonC]

That is interesting as it is well known, and not just a characterization, That "reformed", Calvinists, and especially Primitive Baptist are typically anti- soul-winning. It has only been in recent years that the younger guys have been more evangelistic.

I am not a Calvinist, but I also have to object to this stereotype. It is both wrong and unchristian. I think it is based on a misconception of Calvinism to reflect the hyper-Calvinism of the anti-missions movement. Historically, those opposed most to this movement were Calvinistic Baptists (for an example, read of R.B.C. Howell – the second president of the SBC – and his fight against anti-missions.).

Think of people like John Eliot, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, William Tennent, William Carey….and again…William Carey….Francis Shaeffer, to name a few. These all held those Calvinistic doctrines that some are saying results in anti-missions.

Lesser known but just as valid: Dan and Chuy Hall (Mexico), Trevor Johnson (Indonesia), David Sitton (New Guinea), Paul Brock (Germany), Kevin and Edineia Millard (Brazil), Csaba Liedenfrost (Ivory Coast), Pawel Bartosik (Poland)….just to name a few. There are church plants like Rivne Biblical Church in Ukraine, and CREC Poland. There’s the Slavic Reformation Society’s work in Russia.

I’m SBC, and regardless of how we view the man and his policies, it would be foolish to call David Platt “anti-missions” (perhaps he's not a Calvinist, but his views would certainly put him in the same boat as “anti-missions”). Think of John Stott and John Piper and Bill Metzger. My goodness…..think of Tim Keller and the work he’s done to that church in New York. And there’s Paul Washer (his missions to Peru, and Heart's cry Missionary Society).

I think that some Calvinists rely too heavily on theory and have missed the boat on some issues (and this error of relying on theory is in no way limited to that camp, nor does it extend to all Calvinists), but missions certainly is not one of them.

 

[tyndale1946]

And for the Record...We are talking about Sharing the Gospel with Lost people.

My wife is a missionary and I know that is hard for you to visualize coming from me but she has been on a mission all year... You say share the gospel with lost people... Do you consider sharing your belief with others that are going through the same hell you are going through?... You see my wife has fought breast cancer all year and is just finishing her cancer treatment... She went through radiation and chemotherapy this year... She has always brought comfort to those going through the same thing because of her faith... And let me tell you Brother Jon her faith is strong... And my faith is just as strong as hers... So who are the lost people and what are they lost to?... Are they lost to God?... Scripture says God NEVER lost a one... You should read Matthew 25: 35-46 from a spiritual perspective... Not all prisons are natural, neither is nakedness, hunger or thirst... To my wife and I the Gospel is a living thing and it is more than words... It is the word of God put into action in this world among Gods people... You want to put a label on them go ahead... I won't do it... The Lord tells me to pray even for my enemies... God is the only one I know that knows a mans heart and he is the only one that can change it... I said it before and I will say it again I leave the saving up to God... Brother Glen

 

[robustheologian]

The internet has made it possible for the myth of Calvinism and anti-evangelism to be debunked. This is how one can come to the false conclusion that Calvinists for 50 years were against anti-evangelism. All the Calvinists that one encounters does not make up all the Calvinists...nor most Calvinists. Small circles creates narrow conclusions.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am not a Calvinist, but I also have to object to this stereotype. It is both wrong and unchristian. I think it is based on a misconception of Calvinism to reflect the hyper-Calvinism of the anti-missions movement. Historically, those opposed most to this movement were Calvinistic Baptists (for an example, read of R.B.C. Howell – the second president of the SBC – and his fight against anti-missions.).

How is it unChristian even if it were to be wrong. (its not) The one in this thread I have been talking with does not open his bible to share the gospel but says he just "lives" it. Point proven.

I'm sorry but it is a common and well known characteristic of Cals in general. However, I did also say that it was only recently that the younger generation of cals have been more evangelistic. So you example of Platt is irrelevant.

 

[JonC]

How is it unChristian even if it were to be wrong. (its not) The one in this thread I have been talking with does not open his bible to share the gospel but says he just "lives" it. Point proven.

I'm sorry but it is a common and well known characteristic of Cals in general. However, I did also say that it was only recently that the younger generation of cals have been more evangelistic. So you example of Platt is irrelevant.

My apologies. "Unchristian" was overstatement. I do not know the motive behind the error.

Exactly what time period are you speaking of when Calvinists typically shunned evangelism or missions?

 

[Revmitchell]

My apologies. "Unchristian" was overstatement. I do not know the motive behind the error.

Exactly what time period are you speaking of when Calvinists typically shunned evangelism or missions?

All of my life it has been common knowledge. It started long before I came into this word.

 

[JonC]

All of my life it has been common knowledge. It started long before I came into this word.

Yes...we have to be careful about "common knowledge" as it is often wrong. I have also spoken at times from "tradition" or presupposition. But a mere glance at those few I listed should dispel that myth.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes...we have to be careful about "common knowledge" as it is often wrong. I have also spoken at times from "tradition" or presupposition. But a mere glance at those few I listed should dispel that myth.

And often it is not.

 

[JonC]

And often it is not.

Yes, often it is not. In this case, however, it is. And that's the topic.

I've provided a noninclusive list of Calvinists who were very much mission oriented (William Carey is, BTW, known as the "father of modern missions"). I am Southern Baptist, and looking back at the focus of missions by Johnson, Howell, and Fuller (the first 3 presidents of the SBC) it is easy to see your mistake (not the reason for it, but that it is one).

You have ignored the majority of Calvinists who opposed anti-missions Calvinism. That hyper-Calvinism was present in some Calvinistic circles (especially Primitive Baptists influenced by Daniel Parker....and if I remember correctly, Texas has the last remaining "two seed" churches....but it may be North Carolina....I am not certain). But these were a minority and the anti-missions movement was strongly opposed by Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike. Looking back, it seems that they were actually challenged more often than not by Calvinists.

Let’s look at a few non-recent Calvinists who have influenced missions.

John Eliot was a missionary sent to the American Indians in the 17th century. He is thought to be the first missionary among this people group.

David Brainerd was a missionary to the American Indians and it has been said that he sent more people into the mission field than any person in the history of the church due to his diary (An Account of the Life of the late Reverend David Brainerd).

Of course there is George Whitfield and the First Great Awakening.

William Carey translated the Bible into Bengali, Oriya, Assamese, Arabic, Hindi, and Sanskrit.

William Tennent founded the Log College (Princeton University) to train pastors.

Robert Moffat was the first missionary to reach the interior of Africa with the Gospel. He translated the Bible into Setswana.

Robert Morrison was the first Protestant missionary to China, and translated the Bible into Chinese.

Henry Martyn was a missionary to India and Persia.

Again, is there a specific time frame you we should look at to prove your point?

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes, often it is not. In this case, however, it is. And that's the topic.

I've provided a noninclusive list of Calvinists who were very much mission oriented (William Carey is, BTW, known as the "father of modern missions").

Do you know the story of Carey and the fight he went through with Calvinists who were anti missions? It was certainly the prevailing attitude among cals in his day.

 

[JonC]

Do you know the story of Carey and the fight he went through with Calvinists who were anti missions? It was certainly the prevailing attitude among cals in his day.

Yes. Do you know the story of R.B.C. Howell and the fight he went through with Calvinists who were anti missions?

You keep on stereotyping the whole based on a part. It was not a "prevailing attitude", it was a dangerous and short lived attitude, but Howell and Carey were also Calvinists.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I think Calvinists rely too heavily on theory and have missed the boat on some issues, but missions certainly is not one of them.

I think you would have done better in your post if you had left this off. You started off with a gentle rebuke for one doing the same thing, then do it yourself at the ending of your decent post.

Do you have some sound evidence for your accusation, or are you just being unChristian as well as the other you accuse? Will you show us all one doctrine that Calvinists use that is only theoretical and not exegetical, and where these have 'missed the boat on some issues' (a plurality obviously). The missed the boat thing must be a huge one (or more) so it should be very easy to prove with no reasonable doubt.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes. Do you know the story of R.B.C. Howell and the fight he went through with Calvinists who were anti missions?

You keep on stereotyping the whole based on a part. It was not a "prevailing attitude", it was a dangerous and short lived attitude, but Howell and Carey were also Calvinists.

Uh no they were of the few who fought the prevailing attitude. Sorry that is just the facts. Here are some links to cals who are anti soul winning. They say they are not but they are:

Also, as has been expressed by another in this thread what Calvinists see as evangelism everyone else see as inaction and lack of concern. What most cals I have talked with pass off as evangelism is nothing resembling what scripture says to do.

I have to go. I have prayer meeting and other things. Will check back later.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I'm still new here(so my perception may be off), but it seems that SOME in the "Reformed" camp believe that evangelism is unnecessary almost to the point to where it's deemed "unbiblical."

What say Ye? Do we share/proclaim/preach/declare the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ in whatever capacity given to us or do we keep it to ourselves, for only the church to dissect and unravel for our own sanctification?

Please give Scripture for your proof, not just a doctrinal statement, i.e. God is sovereign, He will save who he wants, why do i have to help?

Don't allow any to dissuade you with their philosophy from preaching the Gospel. Those who do this typically reject the label Calvinist (some PB's, perhaps others) and I do not consider such to be Calvinist nor Reformed as this behavior does not fit the track record at all.

It would be like saying since Westboro is PB then that is the model of all PB's. That would be unfair and untrue.

Paul preached to all, we do not know whom God has elected, yet the Gospel message is to be shared for the sake of the elect (some will hate that phrase immediately but it is 100% Biblical) and there will be suffering to go along with it - 2 Timothy 2:8-10. God will certainly save whom He has set out to, Acts 2:39, but we are (should be/can be) partakers by His decree in so doing, 1 Cor. 3:6.

 

[JonC]

I think you would have done better in your post if you had left this off. You started off with a gentle rebuke for one doing the same thing, then do it yourself at the ending of your decent post.

Do you have some sound evidence for your accusation, or are you just being unChristian as well as the other you accuse? Will you show us all one doctrine that Calvinists use that is only theoretical and not exegetical, and where these have 'missed the boat on some issues' (a plurality obviously). The missed the boat thing must be a huge one (or more) so it should be very easy to prove with no reasonable doubt.

There was a reason I put that comment in the post, brother. It was not an accusation but a disagreement on several issues within Calvinistic and Reformed churches. I will point out here that I have witnessed you do the same regarding non-Calvinistic theologies and we could both support our disagreements with the other’s view.


I made the comment so that Rev would also know that I am not just blindly defending my own theology (as sometimes happens on this board). I’ve stated before that Reformed Baptist appears much too often to be RCC doctrine twice removed. But you do make a good observation that we need to define “Calvinism” before continuing this discussion on a new thread. That may be a good start when you begin the discussion.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Interesting. I have been Reformed for more than 25 years(after growing up IFB) and have never, ever, even once heard such a thing. Usually, I hear such things from others ...

Yes, this is always heard from others and is an intended insult and attack. It's a false accusation from anti Calvinist types. Good point and God bless!

 

[Internet Theologian]

Hi Brother Jon,

The title of the thread you created is "Are Saints called to Preach/share the gospel?". The answer is yes. The gospel is food for the sheep (those who are regenerated). This is what Jesus meant when he instructed Peter to "feed His sheep", not once, but three times in the end of the book of John.

In regards to if the gospel call of repentance and faith should be deliberately preached to the unsaved the answer is no. Jesus said, "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance". He said this to the Pharisees and scribes. In other words he was saying His call is not to the self-righteous unregenerate who do not view themselves as sinners or even see a need for a savior, but rather to those who the Holy Spirit has already done a work on their heart, thus they know they are a sinner and in need of a savior with no hope otherwise. The perfect example of this is the publican, "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner" (Luke 18:13).

Another verse showing the gospel call of repentance and faith is not to the unregenerate is , "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Matthew 7:6). The declaration of the gospel of Christ's atoning work for His people is holy is it not? Therefore, it should not be given to the swine and the response by the swine is usually to only scorn or make fun of those who preach the message to them.

God bless,

Brother Joe

We don't know who the elect are, and are to share the Gospel due to this fact, note 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Nobody is going to rebut this?

P.s. Bro. Joe, I'd dig deeper in Matthew 7:6 if I were you.

I kindly disagreed with Brother Joseph on this issue brother.

 

[JonC]

Uh no they were of the few who fought the prevailing attitude. Sorry that is just the facts. Here are some links to cals who are anti soul winning. They say they are not but they are:

Also, as has been expressed by another in this thread what Calvinists see as evangelism everyone else see as inaction and lack of concern. What most cals I have talked with pass off as evangelism is nothing resembling what scripture says to do.

I have to go. I have prayer meeting and other things. Will check back later.

Sorry brother, but the anti-missions movement (while experiencing a surge against the growing Methodist theology) was an overstatement of Calvinism and was never a majority view. You are looking at a small segment of history and applying to to the whole.

 

[Internet Theologian]

There was a reason I put that comment in the post, brother. It was not an accusation but a disagreement.

It was an accusation, not a disagreement. There is no evidence to your claims, that makes it an accusation.