T
TexasSky
Guest
Petrel,
I phrased my statement poorly. I did not mean that you objected to the person of Ahaz. I meant your objection to "virgin" meaning "virgin" based on Ahaz is wrong.
It is God's word which states that the Isaiah verses refer to the Christ child. (Matthew 22-23)
"All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel which means, 'God with us.'"
What you are suggesting, by saying that Isaiah is not referring to the Christ child, is that God's word, in Matthew, lied. For Matthew states, point blank, that the verse refers to Christ.
Beyond that, the word, "Immanuel" means, "God is with us." There are only three times that word is used in God's word. I don't know how many people used it afterwards, but in God's word, it is ONLY used three times.
Isaiah 7:4, Isaiah 8:8 and Matthew 1:23
Christ is the ONLY "Immanuel". He is the ONLY man in the history of the world whose very presence means "God is with us."
As to the word "'almah'" -yes, it was used interchangably with "engaged" or "bethrohed". However, that useage does not cancel out the definition "virgin". Decent bethrothed women were virgins. If Mary was not a virgin when she conceived Christ, she was a wicked woman who, by law, should be stoned for dishonoring her father's house. So the words were synonyms in that age. Something like substituting "wife" and "female spouse." Same difference because of meaning.
Deuteronomy 22:13 If a man takes a wife, and after lying with her, dislikes her, and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I apporached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mothre shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate."
It goes on to say, the man is fined 500 shekels for ruining the girl's good name, she will remain his wife, and he will not be allowed to divorce her.
Then in verse 20 it says If, however, the charge is true, and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house.
Bethrothed women were expected to be virgins.
However, beyond that. Matthew also states, point blank, that Mary's child was NOT born of man.
Matthew 1:19-20 "Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had conidered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."
So yes, the virginity of Mary is very important to Christians.
I phrased my statement poorly. I did not mean that you objected to the person of Ahaz. I meant your objection to "virgin" meaning "virgin" based on Ahaz is wrong.
It is God's word which states that the Isaiah verses refer to the Christ child. (Matthew 22-23)
"All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet. The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel which means, 'God with us.'"
What you are suggesting, by saying that Isaiah is not referring to the Christ child, is that God's word, in Matthew, lied. For Matthew states, point blank, that the verse refers to Christ.
Beyond that, the word, "Immanuel" means, "God is with us." There are only three times that word is used in God's word. I don't know how many people used it afterwards, but in God's word, it is ONLY used three times.
Isaiah 7:4, Isaiah 8:8 and Matthew 1:23
Christ is the ONLY "Immanuel". He is the ONLY man in the history of the world whose very presence means "God is with us."
As to the word "'almah'" -yes, it was used interchangably with "engaged" or "bethrohed". However, that useage does not cancel out the definition "virgin". Decent bethrothed women were virgins. If Mary was not a virgin when she conceived Christ, she was a wicked woman who, by law, should be stoned for dishonoring her father's house. So the words were synonyms in that age. Something like substituting "wife" and "female spouse." Same difference because of meaning.
Deuteronomy 22:13 If a man takes a wife, and after lying with her, dislikes her, and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I apporached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mothre shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate."
It goes on to say, the man is fined 500 shekels for ruining the girl's good name, she will remain his wife, and he will not be allowed to divorce her.
Then in verse 20 it says If, however, the charge is true, and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house.
Bethrothed women were expected to be virgins.
However, beyond that. Matthew also states, point blank, that Mary's child was NOT born of man.
Matthew 1:19-20 "Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had conidered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."
So yes, the virginity of Mary is very important to Christians.