Are sex offenders usually repeat offenders?

[plain_n_simple]

"No scripture agrees that man is not sinless."

When forgiven, sin no longer exists, washed in the blood, if you believe.
You think you are a failure before it happens, get rid of sin conscience.

 

[John of Japan]

On another thread in the pastor's forum, I made the assumption that sex offenders are dangerous and should not be trusted because they are repeat offenders. Another poster gave links that would seem to dispute this, at least partly.

Before I respond to him, anyone else care to chime in?

This is a complex subject and so far all I've read here are generalizations. We're on the road in FL headed for meetings in TX, so I may not be able to post much but I wanted to point out some things.

First of all, you need to define what you mean by the term. The 2012 view of "sex offenders" is an extremely broad one. Even one time offenders who have simply touched a woman wrongly must be put on a "sex offender" registry for years along with rapists and child molesters, which can be very unfair. All are not the same.

I know personally three Christian men who have been branded this way. One's offense was many years ago--one touch and he went to jail for a year. The young woman went on to ensnare others. The second one is in jail for a year right now for making a video he shouldn't have and also downloading something he shouldn't have--but the plea bargain was for something he didn't do, which was selling the items. I know him well--he will not repeat. The third is an old man who had a stroke before his offenses. He had never been inappropriate in his life, but something went haywire in his brain. He's now trying to live it down, his life basically over.

So yes, depending on your definition, offenders are often one time offenders. But many offenders will be multiple offenders.

 

[annsni]

This is a complex subject and so far all I've read here are generalizations. We're on the road in FL headed for meetings in TX, so I may not be able to post much but I wanted to point out some things.

First of all, you need to define what you mean by the term. The 2012 view of "sex offenders" is an extremely broad one. Even one time offenders who have simply touched a woman wrongly must be put on a "sex offender" registry for years along with rapists and child molesters, which can be very unfair. All are not the same.

I know personally three Christian men who have been branded this way. One's offense was many years ago--one touch and he went to jail for a year. The young woman went on to ensnare others. The second one is in jail for a year right now for making a video he shouldn't have and also downloading something he shouldn't have--but the plea bargain was for something he didn't do, which was selling the items. I know him well--he will not repeat. The third is an old man who had a stroke before his offenses. He had never been inappropriate in his life, but something went haywire in his brain. He's now trying to live it down, his life basically over.

So yes, depending on your definition, offenders are often one time offenders. But many offenders will be multiple offenders.

John - How about a man who raped his daughter for years and blamed her and his ex-wife for it and STILL, after being in jail for 14 years and now being in your church blames his ex-wife for it? That is the scenerio this question came from.

 

[righteousdude2]

Regardless of the Testimony...

...we need to protect those in the body, and if you have a heads up that a person among you has ever been investigated or accused of sex crimes with children (especially) or adults, a red flag should go up, and the person should be delicately placed in jobs around the church that will lessen their opportunity to repeat their offense.

The most-recent events unfolding in LA with the two teachers at Miramonte Elementry is but one example that should serve to show why we must always trust the past of the person as an indicator of their future. Too many children have been marred for life by these two men. :type:

 

[preachinjesus]

I have already notified a mod about this thread and if he deems it inappropriate, I am sure he will let me know shortly. I did not start the thread to offend, but to move the topic to a debate area so we could discuss it further.

I'm no so much worried about the forum rules concerning human sexuality (which are obtuse) but more pointed towards the reality that no one here is qualified to speak on this issue and (as we have seen elsewhere) this is a highly charged discussion. Frankly I've seen few discussions this polarizing where opinions are so enflamed. (And I'm saying this is almost as polarized as the ridiculous Calvinism vs....whatever threads)

Nevertheless, I've made my opinion well known on this issue and will be done with it for a while.

 

[Arbo]

Are sex offenders usually repeat offenders?

God may forgive, but why should society?

 

[HAMel]

I have a rule. "I Don't Touch Anyone".

I can shake your hand..., maybe return a Christian Hug..., but never initiate in any shape, manner or form or even think about touching someone.

As JoJ provided, I know a man who lost everything as a 16 year old girl reported three years after an alleged incident (when she was 13) of inappropriate touching while in a swimming pool. Give me a break!

 

[DiamondLady]

On another thread in the pastor's forum, I made the assumption that sex offenders are dangerous and should not be trusted because they are repeat offenders. Another poster gave links that would seem to dispute this, at least partly.

Before I respond to him, anyone else care to chime in?

The simple answer to your question, which most believe to be true, is yes. Unfortunately that simple answer doesn't really answer the question.

First, being a sex offender covers many levels, from the 18 year old boy who has sex with his 17 1/2 year old girlfriend and her mother objects and has him sent to prison as a rapist, to the middle aged man who views kiddie porn on his computer, to the men who troll the teen chat rooms and lure girls to motels, to the peeping tom, to the flasher....and on and on.

So CAN they be trusted again? Some, yes. Not all. I don't believe that old man who enjoys walking through Central Park and gets his kicks out of flashing everyone will ever change. Will that 18 year old boy ever reoffend? Highly, Highly unlikely. However, that 18 year old boy doesn't meet the true definition of a sexual predator.

In churches, however, we must be ABOVE circumspect. We can take absolutely NO risk by allowing a convicted sex offender to have anything to do with children. They can never be a teacher, leader, or worker with children. Should they attend our churches? Absolutely.

Truth is, if we eliminated all men from the church who have lust in their hearts the church would be sans men. (and before someone jumps on me for saying men....women can lust too)

 

[John of Japan]

John - How about a man who raped his daughter for years and blamed her and his ex-wife for it and STILL, after being in jail for 14 years and now being in your church blames his ex-wife for it? That is the scenerio this question came from.

That narrows the subject down considerably. I would immediately set up an appointment with the man. If I saw no repentance or openness to counseling, I would inform him he is not welcome back. Chances are very strong that he will repeat and give the church a world of hurt as well as his family.

 

[annsni]

That narrows the subject down considerably. I would immediately set up an appointment with the man. If I saw no repentance or openness to counseling, I would inform him he is not welcome back. Chances are very strong that he will repeat and give the church a world of hurt as well as his family.

I agree. It would have to be a situation of prayer and individual counseling. It cannot be a blanket statement but one that would have to be dealt with wisdom and discernment. But most of all, we need to be supremely cautious because we are dealing with an adult who has sinned and abused children - and we have a church full of innocent children. We do not want one to injure the other and will do all we can to prevent that from happening.

 

[John of Japan]

Are sex offenders usually repeat offenders?

God may forgive, but why should society?

American society appears to forgive murderers, drug offenders and many other terrible sins. But sex offenders are the only ones put on a special list for all to see, a further punishment. Tell you what, if we're going to make such lists, I'd really like to know if a convicted murderer or carjacker or armed robber is living next to me, because they let those guys go free all the time.

Folks, the American legal system is all messed up. This problem is only part of the whole.

 

[DaChaser1]

Yet even when one is saved, they still struggle with sin and can still sin. Just because they are saved doesn't mean that they will never sin again.

That is the ONLY ope that any sinner has, woulod be found in a saving relationship with jesus. and empowered by the HS...

A person with this sin area though MUST have accountible partners, mature christians around them, be able to be part of the local church, but must be regulated to have no exposure to children without strict restrictions in place!

 

[DaChaser1]

American society appears to forgive murderers, drug offenders and many other terrible sins. But sex offenders are the only ones put on a special list for all to see, a further punishment. Tell you what, if we're going to make such lists, I'd really like to know if a convicted murderer or carjacker or armed robber is living next to me, because they let those guys go free all the time.

Folks, the American legal system is all messed up. This problem is only part of the whole.

didn't the Lord forgive and use Apostle paul, chief of sinners, accuser of bethren and set up man to have many killed?

 

[annsni]

American society appears to forgive murderers, drug offenders and many other terrible sins. But sex offenders are the only ones put on a special list for all to see, a further punishment. Tell you what, if we're going to make such lists, I'd really like to know if a convicted murderer or carjacker or armed robber is living next to me, because they let those guys go free all the time.

Folks, the American legal system is all messed up. This problem is only part of the whole.

Usually serial murderers are never released from prison so we don't need to worry about them being in society again but if a serial murderer were to come into church, I do believe we would have the same issues as we are speaking of here. A drug offender usually is harming themselves and not others so we don't have to worry about the safety of our own people as much - although I can safely say that we have had a few people who have been drug addicts who we have had to watch because they have gotten back on drugs and they HAVE been harmful and we have had to ask them to leave (in one case even involving the police).

The issue to me is that this sin involves harming my children. It is not stealing my jewelry or my car. It is causing my children to be scarred for life. I want to know to protect my children from that forever. If the person next door to me were a murderer who is likely to murder again, I want to know that as well so that I know to protect us too. Knowledge is power. I want to know how to protect my family - and as a pastor (well, as his wife but working closely with the pastor), I want to know how best to protect those who are entrusted to our care.

 

[DaChaser1]

Usually serial murderers are never released from prison so we don't need to worry about them being in society again but if a serial murderer were to come into church, I do believe we would have the same issues as we are speaking of here. A drug offender usually is harming themselves and not others so we don't have to worry about the safety of our own people as much - although I can safely say that we have had a few people who have been drug addicts who we have had to watch because they have gotten back on drugs and they HAVE been harmful and we have had to ask them to leave (in one case even involving the police).

The issue to me is that this sin involves harming my children. It is not stealing my jewelry or my car. It is causing my children to be scarred for life. I want to know to protect my children from that forever. If the person next door to me were a murderer who is likely to murder again, I want to know that as well so that I know to protect us too. Knowledge is power. I want to know how to protect my family - and as a pastor (well, as his wife but working closely with the pastor), I want to know how best to protect those who are entrusted to our care.

the Lord fully forgives through His grace those redeemed by Himself, does wash and cleanse them, but also have the aspect of having to make sure these saints are 'well regulated!"

Might make sense that they would be set apart in their own community seperated from general public!

 

[Amy.G]

The issue to me is that this sin involves harming my children. It is not stealing my jewelry or my car. It is causing my children to be scarred for life. I want to know to protect my children from that forever. If the person next door to me were a murderer who is likely to murder again, I want to know that as well so that I know to protect us too. Knowledge is power. I want to know how to protect my family - and as a pastor (well, as his wife but working closely with the pastor), I want to know how best to protect those who are entrusted to our care.

And this is why rape was punishable by death in the OT. I'm not saying we should go back to OT Law, but merely pointing out the severity of the crime according to God.

If you've ever been a victim of sexual abuse or have a child that was abused, you will have a very different view of allowing the perpetrator into your church.

As I said before, God forgives, but there are earthly consequences for these actions. Just look at the life of King David to see that.

 

[Gina B]

For the person who said that the posts on here were all subjective opinions, I provided a link to a study that is based in fact and observation. Please take the time to read it.

I'll also add that my experience as a victim, as someone who worked with offenders, as someone who is now working with kids who have been through it and dealing with keeping them safe and and in the process of dealing with three separate offenders, I do feel as if my statements are more than just conjecture. They come from experience and while they may not be professional, they still carry some weight and even if that isn't accepted, why would you believe that the information in the link, by our own country which has studied and observed and has access to the information and is studying this on something about as unbiased as it can get in order to try to understand how to handle offenders, would not be a great source of information? If you can't accept THAT as a valid source, there can't possibly be any other source out there that one would view as acceptable, so that means you'd have to go back to just viewing your own opinion as the only valid one, which totally negates your own argument. There's no logic in that.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I'm on my lunch break.

I, too, have never seen a more polarizing issue than this one and it makes me physcially ill to see people want to give those who harm children a "social pass" and a "God bless you, Jesus loves you" pat on the back and not be concerned at all about monitoring their behavior or protecting children in their care or circle. The only concern seems to be that "we" are not loving enough, not forgiving enough, and don't believe Jesus when He said that we are "new creatures in Christ." Apples and oranges.

A child molester can and should be forgiven. APPLES. A child molester should be monitored when around children. ORANGES.

I can forgive someone a great debt, but they still may have to bear the consequence of me not trusting them for a while. Isn't that what we tell our teenagers when they screw up? I forgive you for stealing money from my purse and buying liquor with it, but you've got to earn my trust back.

Why should child molesters get free ride in that department?


By the way, if anyone cares, the student I had yesterday who was beaten to a pulp by her father who is a REPEAT offender is missing.

Her mother, in my opinion is an accessory to her children being beaten by this man (who is currently in jail, but who's brother is waiting to bail him out). She did not feed the children all weekend to accompany the beating the older girl got by the father and why she was not arrested is beyond me. She defended the husband to the point of having to be arrested for disturbing the peace and STILL got to take the children home yesterday because the police nor social worker would take the children away from her.

She promised to have them here this morning. She also promised to take the husband back even though she signed an order of protection against him. She didn't want to because she defended his actions.

The children didn't show up today.

The police have already been to the house and relatives are being questions.

Just thought I would let you know - if anyone is interested in reality.

I could give you my own personal experiences with the people, but the ones who understand don't need convincing and the ones that believe that all one has to do is sing "Jesus loves me" and they no longer sin again or are a danger to anyone again wouldn't really get it.

Pray for Naomi and Alexander.

 

[John of Japan]

didn't the Lord forgive and use Apostle paul, chief of sinners, accuser of bethren and set up man to have many killed?

I don't think simple forgiveness is the question here. And I don't think Paul excused his crimes like the case mentioned here, meaning this man has not repented.

 

[Scarlett O.]

The children did not show up for school this morning as the mother was ordered to do. The police and social worker went directly to the house and found it empty.

We've spent most of the day panicking in silence. It hasn't been a pleasant day.

I just got word that they were found with the mother in the Monroe area. She had driven them there to meet the paternal grandmother from another state who rode in on a bus. They are currently at the courthouse and the mother is trying to get legal custodianship of the children transferred to the abuser's mother and for them to return out of state with her.

The mother wants the father back in the house and since she signed the protective order against him, she has made her choice. She wants the man and not the children.

He is still in jail awaiting all of the red tape to be completed so that his brother, who has raised the money, can bail him out.

The children still need your prayers. I'm spent on this. I can't think about it anymore today.

P.S. In my haste at lunch, I said that the mother was arrested for disturbing the peace. I meant to say that she should have been and almost was. The police did threaten to take her in yesterday for that very thing while she was making a stink in the principal's office because the children down the hall could hear her ranting.

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