Are the Jews still God's people?

[tinytim]

It's God's way of telling us to go to bed! Your triplicate posts symbolize the trinity... lol

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't follow your response, are you separating the Jews from Israel?

I am only saying that we have no evidence that the current political state of Israel is the Biblical nation of Israel. So, I guess yes, the current state of Israel contains many Jewish people, but Jews live all over the world.

God's promises to American, Russian, and Irish Jews are just as valid as His promise to Jews in Israel.

 

[Palatka51]

Zechariah 12:1-14

1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Verse ten is yet to be fulfilled.

Who carries the message of grace today? The Church

As national and political relationships go, all nations will turn against Israel, including America. But that will happen to the Church first.

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

This is the witness that will open the eyes of the people that God had called His own by the flesh of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. We, the Church, are the current "House of God" and as such it is our calling to witness. The first Church was 98% Jewish and it's witness to the Gentiles was in tribulation and persecution. The last generation is 98% Gentile and it will witness to the Jewish Nation in world wide tribulation and persecutions.

Now remember what Jesus said;

28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

 

[Martin Luther]

There is obviously something special about the land...
And since God decided to give it to Israel, we should not question God.

Today's Israel may be where she is in order to fulfill the plans of God.
If so, We as the Children of God must still support the nation of Israel. In doing so, we are pleasing God.

Genesis 25:25

25And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.


So, what do you think, how many red haired jews do you know?

 

[Amy.G]

Verse ten is yet to be fulfilled.

[/B]

I think it has.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.


Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Jhn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.



John says scripture was fulfilled.

 

[Amy.G]

Genesis 25:25

25And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.


So, what do you think, how many red haired jews do you know?

Interesting. But I don't understand your point.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Marking, get back to you

 

[webdog]

Israel continues to reject our Lord and Savior who came to them!
Yet we Christians want to support that?

Yet, how many times do we see God doing just that throughout the OT? If God is that longsuffering, shouldn't we be?

 

[Palatka51]

I think it has.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.


Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Jhn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.



John says scripture was fulfilled.

The scripture of Psalm 22 is what is fulfilled here.

TO THE CHIEF MUSICIAN UPON AIJELETH SHAHAR, A PSALM OF DAVID.
1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.
11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

At this time both the Jew and the Roman (Gentiles) either forsook Him or berated Him.

The Scripture of Zechariah is of the future when Jerusalem is a burden to the world. Just as it is right now as the war with Gaza is going on. Revival is coming and it will be in Israel. The context of Chapter 12 is that of the house of David (Jews) and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all the families of Israel morning for Him, not berating Him.

 

[abcgrad94]

I agree.

Gentile believers are "grafted in" to Israel, but there are still promises to Israel made by God that do not pertain to the church.

I do not believe the civil government of Israel is chosen, but Israel as a people is -- this will be fulfilled when many Jews are saved at the endtimes.

I agree.

I still believe that while there are Jews all over the world, Isreal still represents the Jewish nation. Whether or not I agree with everything Isreal does, I still think we should be friends and not judge them or take military action against them. They are still special to God.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

This is Christ. The one who the Jews rejected then hung on a cross. God fulfilled his promise by sending his only begotten son. Some believed and are part of the Church. Some had saving forward looking faith (Heb 11) and are saved. I don't know how one gets to the promises of God if they reject His Church???

I don't believe in a parallel saving institution or should I say, I don't see one in the Bible.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand. Jews right now reject him. Jews, if you believe Daniel, will repent eventually, probably not for a while, but they will. And when they do, then the promises will be fulfilled.

And I have never said Jews who reject Christ are saved. I don't know why people keep saying I have.

 

[LadyEagle]

The Curse of "Replacement Theology" has infiltrated into all denominations now including Baptists. The Early Church Fathers were Jewish. It was after the early Gentile Church Fathers took over that there was a "Replacement Theology."

Romans 11:[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
[29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
[30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
[34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?
[35] Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
[36] For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen

The reason the Jews (for the most part) reject Christ now is because Paul says in Romans 11 that God blinded them.

[7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So God did it. It was part of His plan. If it weren't for their blindness, the Gospel would be unknown to us. And Paul heeds us not to be "wise in our own conceits regarding this issue." When the fullness of Gentiles is come, Paul says the blindness will be lifted from them.

 

[KenH]

The Curse of "Replacement Theology"

There is absolutely no reason for some folks on your side of this theological disagreement to spew forth such venom toward the folks on the other side. This may be a great debate ot have, but whichever side of the argument we come down on it has absolutely nothing to do with our being saved.

 

[LadyEagle]

There is absolutely no reason for some folks on your side of this theological disagreement to spew forth such venom toward the folks on the other side. This may be a great debate ot have, but whichever side of the argument we come down on it has absolutely nothing to do with our being saved.

Well I happen to agree with this statement which is why I call it a curse:

We believe replacement theology is the epitome of the arrogance that the Holy Spirit warned the Church of through the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 11 verses 17 and 18: "But if some of the branches [Israel] were broken off, and you (all gentile believers), being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them [Israel] of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you."

It came from here - a great article:

http://www.contender.org/articles/repisrl.htm

 

[Palatka51]

The Curse of "Replacement Theology" has infiltrated into all denominations now including Baptists. The Early Church Fathers were Jewish. It was after the early Gentile Church Fathers took over that there was a "Replacement Theology."



The reason the Jews (for the most part) reject Christ now is because Paul says in Romans 11 that God blinded them.

[7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So God did it. It was part of His plan. If it weren't for their blindness, the Gospel would be unknown to us. And Paul heeds us not to be "wise in our own conceits regarding this issue." When the fullness of Gentiles is come, Paul says the blindness will be lifted from them.

Amen Lady Eagle Amen. :godisgood:

 

[KenH]

Well I happen to agree with this statement which is why I call it a curse

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. Those who oppose your view have offered ample Biblical evidence. Your side may not agree with it but that is no reason to badmouth fellow Christians.

 

[webdog]

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. Those who oppose your view have offered ample Biblical evidence. Your side may not agree with it but that is no reason to badmouth fellow Christians.

Have you read some of the threads about our dispensational view, and the vitriolic phrases describing us?

 

[LeBuick]

LE... What is the problem with replacement theology. I never heard it called that but the verses seem fairly clear to me. Some of the branches of Israel were broken off and Gentiles were grafted into the Church. Peter, Paul and the writer of Hebrews also refer to it as an inheritance. That we (the gentiles in the Church) are inheritors with the promises God made to the patriarchs of Israel (see Palatka51 post on Zec 12).

We believe replacement theology is the epitome of the arrogance that the Holy Spirit warned the Church of through the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 11 verses 17 and 18: "But if some of the branches [Israel] were broken off, and you (all gentile believers), being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them [Israel] of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you."

 

[Martin Luther]

The Curse of "Replacement Theology" has infiltrated into all denominations now including Baptists. The Early Church Fathers were Jewish. It was after the early Gentile Church Fathers took over that there was a "Replacement Theology."

We all know Paul was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, why did he say this:


1 Corinthians 9:20

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

If Paul was born a jew why did he need to become "as one"? It would seem the term jew is more indicative of the law, aka as Judaism to many. In the O.T., any man (non-Israelite) could become one of Gods by following Gods commands. (Isaiah 56:4-8) I don't know if I should call the religion of Moses and Christ Judaism, so let's call it the law since Judaism imparts more teaching from the Babylonian Talmud than the bible. Even in Esther 8:17, we see men of Persia "becoming" jews for fear of the jews. It would seem that not all jews are Israelites. Since any man willing to follow God was redeemed by God, has salvation really changed?

 

[Jim1999]

Why, of course, Luke was a Jew!

Cheers,

Jim