Are the Jews still God's people?

[LadyEagle]

The only Israel safe will be the one Christ marries, the church.

Where in Scripture is the Church referred to as Israel? Thanks.

 

[webdog]

Where in Scripture is the Church referred to as Israel? Thanks.

I Covenentalist 5:2

 

[Martin Luther]

Where in Scripture is the Church referred to as Israel? Thanks.

1 Peter 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.



Even O.T. saints are saved through the gospel, do you agree?

 

[Jim1999]

I would like to interpose some thinking at this point. Amillennialists do differ on what will happen to the national Jews, but the timing differs. Since we don't have a future millennium and deem the 1000 years of Revelation as a spurious number..perhaps meaning complete in the absolute as opposed to the complete number 10. Many of us believe that prior to the second coming of Jesus there will be a mass revival among both Gentiles and Jews, and many Jews will bow in faith to Jesus the Messiah. So, we don't all rule out the Jews or the Jewish nation, but some of us do differ on that point.

Just a thought from an amillennialist.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[LadyEagle]

1 Peter 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.



Even O.T. saints are saved through the gospel, do you agree?

Agreed, but the above passage no where indicates that the Church replaced Israel, but in reading with the passage in Romans shows the Church was grafted in. I fail to see how you are proving the Church replaced Israel. The text just doesn't say that.

 

[webdog]

1 Peter 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.



Even O.T. saints are saved through the gospel, do you agree?

This is speaking of gentiles, not the church replacing Israel. This is the grafting in of the branches to the tree that are not natural.

 

[Jim1999]

Peter is writing this letter to Christians scattered all over. He is not speaking at all about the Israel of old.

Cheers,

Jim

Whoops! I didn't see Webdog write that,,honest!

 

[LadyEagle]

Peter is writing this letter to Christians scattered all over. He is not speaking at all about the Israel of old.

Cheers,

Jim

Whoops! I didn't see Webdog write that,,honest!

Agreed. :thumbs:

 

[LadyEagle]

I Covenentalist 5:2

 

[webdog]

Sarcasm, LE, there is no Scripture.

 

[Jim1999]

I looked even in the index and couldn't find that book??? Could we have page number please.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

I looked even in the index and couldn't find that book??? Could we have page number please.

Cheers,

Jim

It's after 2 Opinions...

 

[Martin Luther]

Agreed, but the above passage no where indicates that the Church replaced Israel, but in reading with the passage in Romans shows the Church was grafted in. I fail to see how you are proving the Church replaced Israel. The text just doesn't say that.

I'm sorry, I that is not my position. My position is that being apart of Israel was always a spiritual matter. What was replaced was the old covenant. All men reconciled to God are done so through Christ, including Adam. God is gathering a worthy bride for His Son, they are a called out assembly.

Israel is restored and cleansed:


Ezekiel 37:12-14 (King James Version)

12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.



Ezekiel 37:23-30 (King James Version)


23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.




Now lets see the church:




John 5:27-29 (King James Version)

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (King James Version)

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




The term replacement theology is not accurate, and I do not use it. Many Israelites are in darkness today, but that will be changing soon enough. But like Chirst said, God does not need them to fulfill His promise to Abraham. Matthew 3:9




One last bit of scripture, how do you interpret this parable?




Matthew 22:2-14 (King James Version)

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[Martin Luther]

This is speaking of gentiles, not the church replacing Israel. This is the grafting in of the branches to the tree that are not natural.

The church is made up of all peoples, including Israelites. Adam and Eve are apart of the church, King David is apart of the church. All men who follow God through His perfect Son are made apart of the body of Christ. You can't get any higher than the BODY of Christ.



Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[webdog]

The church is made up of all peoples, including Israelites. Adam and Eve are apart of the church, King David is apart of the church. All men who follow God through His perfect Son are made apart of the body of Christ. You can't get any higher than the BODY of Christ.



Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

...but the text was not speaking of the church...it was speaking of gentiles sharing in the promises made to Israel, not replacing the promises made to Israel.

 

[Martin Luther]

...but the text was not speaking of the church...it was speaking of gentiles sharing in the promises made to Israel, not replacing the promises made to Israel.

When you are willing to see it, you will see it.

 

[webdog]

When you are willing to see it, you will see it.

Can't see something that is not there. That is how false religions are formed...through eisegesis.

 

[Martin Luther]

Can't see something that is not there. That is how false religions are formed...through eisegesis.

The entire book of Revelation is written to the churches.

 

[LadyEagle]

The Scriptures presented from Ezekiel further prove that the prophecies for the nation of Israel are yet to be fulfilled and those passages do not pertain to the Church. I believe it is in chapter 38 (off the top of my head) where it speaks of the 2 sticks - one from the tribe of Judah and the other the tribe of Ephraim coming together and then the valley of dry bones which is prophetic for the nation of Israel, also. Has nothing to do with the Church and those prophecies have yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Jim1999]

So, the promises made to Israel included the Gentiles and now the Jews and the Gentiles are sharing the same promise. Why wait until later when the sale is on now?

Cheers,

Jim