Spot on.
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Are the Lost Allowed to Seek God?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Spot on.
Man (natural man) seeks God but on his own terms. Atheism is placing man in the role of God. It is the idea that there is no power above us, no God.
I don't know that all false religions are man trying to justify himself. But it is an unwillingness to turn from himself. So perhaps.
But I agree man does not seek God as He has revealed Himself in Scripture. They seek a god that meets their expectations.
People know deep down that there is a God (Romans 1:18-22) and that is why they are culpable for ignoring Him.
But the devils in hell know that there is a God, and a fat lot of good it does them (James 2:19)
The promise of God is that men will find God when they seek Him with all their heart and soul (Deuteronomy 4:29; 2 Chronicles 15:15), but by nature they will not seek Him in that way. not because God prevents them from doing so - quite the contrary (Romans 2:4) - but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts and they do not want to repent (John 3:19; Revelation 16:9-11).
But the devils in hell know that there is a God, and a fat lot of good it does them (James 2:19)
The promise of God is that men will find God when they seek Him with all their heart and soul (Deuteronomy 4:29; 2 Chronicles 15:15), but by nature they will not seek Him in that way. not because God prevents them from doing so - quite the contrary (Romans 2:4) - but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts and they do not want to repent (John 3:19; Revelation 16:9-11).
Since you are the first person I have had contact with is there a new member introduction area where a new member can introduce themselves ? Thanks
Never mind I found it , thanks
1) The controversy surrounds the claim of total spiritiutal inability. One part of Christianity believes the lost have no ability to seek God and trust in Christ. The other, majority, part believes the lost, unless hardened, can seek God and trust in Christ.
2) Yes I see the claim that to called into the kingdom does not equate with being saved. Rational minds see it differently.
3) The claim that Christ casts out saved people because their faith is "unrighteous" is a vicious falsehood.
4) The claim Matthew 13 does not describe lost people accepting the gospel to varying degrees is false. Thus three of the four had some spiritual ability.
5) The claim we must be made spiritually alive before we can receive the gospel is demonstrated false by Matthew 13 where some of the soils received the gospel yet were not saved.
Yet another false charge aimed at me.
NE WHO UNDERSTANDS,There is no one who seeks out God [at any time or all the time]. Either claim is made without changing scripture.
However, in light of the verses cited in the OP, all the time or when sinning is the message because scripture does not conflict with scripture when correctly understood.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You are simply wrong about Romans 3 and you are clearly changing the plain reading of the text to conform to your beliefs. But… we’ve been over this dozens of times, haven’t we?Yet another false charge aimed at me.
There is no one who seeks out God [at any time or all the time]. Either claim is made without changing scripture.
However, in light of the verses cited in the OP, all the time or when sinning is the message because scripture does not conflict with scripture when correctly understood.
I find it interesting that you are using the phase “allowed to seek God” in this latest assault on scripture, which indicates you are acknowledging God’s role in “allowing” people to seek Him.
If you keep creating these threads and continue to be exposed to the truth of God’s Word, I am hopeful you will one day come to believe the plain meaning of God’s Word instead of literally changing it to fit your beliefs
At this rate, however, it might be decades…. UNLESS…… God intervenes
peace to you
Vanology in a nutshell.
If lost people did not seek God, that would mean that no one would ever be saved. But unless God opens their hearts, they will not seek Him in such a way as to be saved. Cornelius and Lydia are the best examples of that. Cornelius was trying to be right with God through good deeds and prayers, but nonetheless, Peter had to be dispatched to preach to him so that he and his household could be saved (Acts of the Apostles 11:14). Lydia was also seeking God, but it was not until she heard of Jesus Christ through Paul that 'the Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul' (Acts of the Apostles 16:14). The fact that she 'worshipped God' did not help her because she did not know the Lord Jesus.[QUOTE}
2) Yes I see the claim that to called [sic] into the kingdom does not equate with being saved. Rational minds see it differently.[/QUOTE] Your mind may see it differently, but that does not make it rational.
There is a general call that goes out to all men. "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15). To whom was our Lord speaking? To anyone within earshot. Was everyone who heard Him saved? It does not appear so. But there is also a particular call which draws certain men irresistibly (e.g. Luke 5:27-28; Acts of the Apostles 13:48).It is certainly a vicious falsehood, but it is something you have claimed over and over again. You have written that people can repent and trust in Christ, but then God may cast them out because their faith is 'unrighteous.' Against this, the Lord Jesus declared, "The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out" (John 6:37).
N.B. If this is not what you mean, you need to explain clearly what you do mean
If you think they are saved people accepting the Gospel, then you do not believe in the Perseverance of the Saints.
But let's look at these people in Matt 13, noting that the seed is always the same - the word of God (Mark 4:14):
1. Matthew 13:4. "Some fell by the wayside." These are the unsaved people who hear the word an do not understand it. Therefore it makes no impression on them and they quickly forget it.
2. Matthew 13:5. "Some fell on stony places, where they didn't have much earth." There is an initial interest, but no lasting impression.
3. Matthew 13:7. "Some fell among thorns and the thorns sprang up and choked them." Again, there is initial interest, but other things, whether poverty or wealth, quickly smother the good seed.
4. Matthew 13:8. "But other fell on good ground and yielded a crop."
The issue is where the seed falls as to whether it yields a crop. It needs to fall upon a heart that has been prepared by God (Acts 16:14 again) before it will yield a crop. The crop, or 'fruit' is what determines whether someone has been saved (Matthew 7:18-20; John 15:5 etc.). Otherwise, although someone may make a human response, it will not last. Simon Magus is a prime example. He 'believed,' but his heart was unchanged - he did not repent. A preacher cannot make a true convert - I say this as a preacher - only God can do that. An eloquent or spectacular preacher may produce a human response but such fruit will not last.
No. That claim is proved by Matt 13. Only the seed that fell on the good soil bore fruit.
We must be born anew, "Not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God' (John 1:13).
You are simply wrong about Romans 3 and you are clearly changing the plain reading of the text to conform to your beliefs. But… we’ve been over this dozens of times, haven’t we?
I find it interesting that you are using the phase “allowed to seek God” in this latest assault on scripture, which indicates you are acknowledging God’s role in “allowing” people to seek Him.
If you keep creating these threads and continue to be exposed to the truth of God’s Word, I am hopeful you will one day come to believe the plain meaning of God’s Word instead of literally changing it to fit your beliefs
At this rate, however, it might be decades…. UNLESS…… God intervenes
peace to you
1) The usual taint so claim.
2) The changing the Reformed bogus interpretation to conform with context.
3) Your denial of the obvious has been posted numerous times.
4) God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. This is the view of mainstream Christianity.
5) I believe the plain meaning of God's word, contextually derived.
6) Your doctrine from the dark ages has no actual support in scripture, thus the effort to change the subject to me.
Once again we see double speak. What does "God opens their hearts" mean. Does it mean God enables and compels them to believe? Nope. All it means is to present God's revelation in a way understandable to the person. Same as opening eyes or minds to understanding.
Note that none of the naysayers have addressed the many verses that clearly say the lost sought God.
What way of seeking God is taught in scripture? Through faith. Does scripture teach that the lost sought God through faith? Yes.
1) If you seek Him, with all your heart and soul
2) If you seek Him, He will let you find Him.
3) Hebrews 11:6 NET
Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.[/QUOTE]
Yet another bogus effort to change the subject to me. Folks, this is all these people have for rebuttal.
Here is the quote:
You are simply wrong about Romans 3
Hopefully that is writ large enough!!!
Actually, Yep! If God opens someone's heart, the very minimum it means is that the heart was closed before. Also, the heart in Scripture is more than the organ that pumps blood around the body. It is the 'hub of the wheel of man's existence, the mainspring of all hid thoughts, words and deeds' (William Hendriksen. c.f. Proverbs 4:23). If God opens someone's heart, He opens the way to his inner being, and God, in the Person of Christ is, 'He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens' (Revelation 3:7).Van said:
And @Van the naysayer has not addressed Romans 3:11 which rather clearly says that there is nobody who seeks God. The idea that 'nobody seeks God' actually means 'some people seek God' or 'all people seek Him sometimes' is a nonsense. If someone tells me that he'll come and visit me on Wednesday, I'm not going to expect him to come on Tuesday or Thursday. But if someone tells Van that he's not going to visit at all, Van assumes that means that he is going to visit some time..
Exactly so. But the sad fact is that people do not seek the true and living God unless He draws them.
Amen! And your point is?