Are The Specifics of Modesty Given In The Scripture

Bapmom,

I looked at that verse and think it unlikely that these breeches did cover the thigh, but go unto the thigh, like briefs underwear, the subject of these breeches seem to be the concealing of private parts or “pudenda” and “thigh” by euphemism the generative parts; would seem to logically fit the definition/description of what these “breeches” cover throughout this verse. Anyway, here’s my homework from the Strongs.

(Exo 28:42) And thou shalt make6213 them linen906 breeches4370 to cover3680 their nakedness;1320, 6172 from the loins4480, 4975 even unto5704 the thighs3409 they shall reach:1961

H4370
מכנס
miknâs
mik-nawce'
From H3647 in the sense of hiding; (only in dual) drawers (from concealing the private parts): - breeches.

H1320
בּשׂר
bâśâr
baw-sawr'
From H1319; flesh (from its freshness); by extension body, person; also (by euphemism) the pudenda of a man: - body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin.

H6172
ערוה
‛ervâh
er-vaw'
From H6168; nudity, literally (especially the pudenda) or figuratively (disgrace, blemish): - nakedness, shame, unclean (-ness).

H4975
מתן
môthen
mo'-then
From an unused root meaning to be slender; properly the waist or small of the back; only in plural the loins: - + greyhound, loins, side.

H3409
ירך
yârêk
yaw-rake'
From an unused root meaning to be soft; the thigh (from its fleshy softness); by euphemism the generative parts; figuratively a shank, flank, side: - X body, loins, shaft, side, thigh.

 

According to this view, then (not using a secular standard), Christian women should be dressing now in whatever was considered modest in the early church days. So all the Christian women should be wearing long robe type garments. Is this what you really believe? That would be consistent with not using a secular standard.

 

Bapmom, I see your point. If exposing the thigh is immodest, do you think that neither men nor women should wear swimsuits at the beach or swimming pool? Or do you think this applies only to walking around on the street or in the store in regular clothes. Am wondering what your view is. Thanks. :smilewinkgrin:

 

I normally don't post 3 in a row, so hope you all forgive me! raying:

It's just the way my thoughts are running today.

I think that the Bible teaches a principle of modesty that is to be applied culturally. Surely the Lord would not be expecting us to dress the same way people dressed in ancient times in order to be clothed modestly. I think the passage about the hair and the pearls was to make a point -- not to dress showy or glitzy, as this is not modest. I do not think it's a sin to wear pearls.

So we take the principles of modesty and apply them wherever we are living and whatever time frame it may be. So in 1820, we dress modestly for 1820. For 2006, we dress modestly for 2006. I think that most of us know when that line has been crossed.

If it gets down to applying one's own specific standards to others, such as saying that women must have long hair or can't wear pants, then it's legalism.

 

Marcia, I agree with your last post completely. Good thoughts.

 

PastorSBC, thanks! :wavey: I can't really take credit though, I learned this way of thinking partly from my pastor on other issues.

 

I think your right, but this principle of modesty has been violated through the times by the world and reduced right down to a not much more than a string.

Was the first woman wearing a bathing suit showing her legs being modest in that culture? How bout the first tight one-piece bathing suit, then the bikini which got smaller and smaller. At some point these people were not being modest within the culture at the time.

I don’t know the answer; personally I don’t see it as nakedness if I don’t see private parts and as far as modesty goes I see it as a matter and intent of the heart.

I’ll say one thing, if Bapmom comes to town and takes me up on that barbequed steak, even if it’s 120 degrees out, I won’t be cooking it with my shirt off as it would be a culture shock and immodest. :laugh: :smilewinkgrin:

 

Ditto, I think she worded that well.

 

I think it applies to men as well as women, and everywhere they go in public.

If they are in a private swimming pool, then that's different. Alone with your spouse is always different.

I don't understand the logic that says being closer to the water makes immodesty ok. (Not that you are saying that, Marcia, but others seem to say that)


Im not so sure I agree with you about the cultural thing. If I believe in a general principle of modesty, and I define it a certain general way, then it ought to be able to be applied equally no matter what culture I am in. You said we should all be wearing long flowing robe-like garments. Those are not the only style of clothing that covers us. Now personally, I DO wear long flowing "robe-like" garments.......only we call them long dresses nowadays. But men can be covered completely without wearing a robe, too.

 

Hi Bapmom,

1st, I agree with what applies to ladies also applies to men. That should be a given.

2nd..Your standards of dress are based on the Bible I'm sure. This is in no way wrong. The word legalism is thrown around freely by many when it comes to standards. In my view, all should set standards and this includes standards of dress. All standards should be based on the Bible. Even though we all have the same Bible, we will have standards that look as if we do not have the same Bible. Legalism is when we look at others and cannot understand why they do not have our same standards as we.

Now, let me say right now, my girls go to BJU. I say this to give you an idea of my standards. Though BJU is not a standard that we all MUST live by this is not the point. I wanted to say this before I get to my point to give you an idea where I'm coming from. 80% of the time, my girls dress just as you have said you do. They do wear pants at times...but they like dresses more then pants.

The point...
The hardest thing about this subject is this. Works of Righteousness. Anything we DO, ....any action we take, and our goal is to do good...we will leave that deed thinking good about ourselves. There is no way around it. The reason I bring this up, in setting standards we must remember this. For when you do pick the RIGHT dress, based on the RIGHT standard, it is you that is doing RIGHT, ...right?

If your right and others do not dress as you..what does that make them?

A wrong look at standards will give us a "HOLY" look at ourselves

Does this mean we should not even try? No.


Know this...We all sinners saved by grace. Though we should dress the best we can, our right dressing does not make us better then those that do not. Just as salvation is a personal relationship with God, standards are much the same way. Don't place your standards on other people. As you do in salvation, show them verses to read, and let God work in their heart to set standards of their own.

Now back to my Girls, and BJU. It is wrong for them to look at others that do not wear dresses as they do, and see them as “not following the Lord”. But how can they do this, when in their own minds they feel it is right? It is focus. If you focus on your works, you will end that focus on you and not God. We are to do it all for God, no matter what others do. It is up to all of us to set our own standards.

Like wise…It would be wrong for my girls to see others that do not wear pants as being “under the law” and not living in grace. They are no better in liberty then those that do not have the liberty to wear pants. Our right deeds does not make us right.

Where does righteousness this come from?

 

But Jarthur,

this thread is about modesty, not pants on women thankfully!

Are you saying all that to me because Ive somehow come across as thinking less of people who have different standards? I don't think Ive said anything like that.....or are you just assuming?

Frankly, pants cover a person's body too. Now to me they follow the shape and form of the body, so its too much exposure. I can understand that some people don't think that way.
It IS a different matter if a person thinks its alright to walk around with their skin hanging out all over the place, though. If ASKED by them, I would tell them that I think they are wrong in that matter......actually only if they are a Christian sister. However, I honestly don't spend much time thinking about what other people are wearing. Ive got 4 girls and 2 boys, I don't have time to worry about what anyone else is or is not wearing.

However, there are certain basic guidelines that are pretty clear in the Bible. I do not in any way believe that just because a culture thinks its ok for ladies to be topless that then God says its ok for ladies to (non)dress that way. That idea is what I object to. And I believe that is far beyond the point where its just a minor difference in standards.

 

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Indeed. I picked one subject that some deem as worldly and...in some cases some say not modesty. But it is others that set that standard. I could have talked about swimware...or t-shirts. The same idea applies. We each set our only standard on pants..swimware, tshirts..what have ya.

If I did say that to you and you alone, then I would be no better then what I said. In fact what i was saying is that this is a point that we all must remember in standards..and that incudes me. I used my girls for fear you may think i was talking of you or someone else. It didn't help..i can see. Oh well..we live and learn

Yes well...its not up to me to set a standard for them. My role is to point them to God. God will help them and maybe set higher standards then I have..I don't know.

And I would not. I would point them to verse and tell them to set there own standard...but base it on the Bible. There are many many verses that can be used. I want no one to follow me. (I know your not saying you do...this is just my thoughts) At some point I may hold them back in their growth. Besides why not go to the source from where we all should set our standards?

I know what ya mean there. I have sisters that do and I think it is self-holy worship. My sisters and I have about the same standards, but they are always talking about others...and the way in which "the others" do not dress Godly. What this is saying to me..is they think they do!! Pride over takes any good that they do. Do you know what I mean? The best thing I can do for ANYONE..is bring them closer to Christ. If I do that...all other things really do not matter. If I point out ..."DRESS LIKE ME"...I'm bring others close to me. right? Maybe you do not see it that way.

And how is the best way to share this? Let your Bible do the talking. right?

Very true. But each are addressed the same way. Are they not? I mean..in the end you will need to back it from the Bible, why not start there? Why do you object?..because the Bible says so...then show me.