Are we in the kingdom?

[Piper]

Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Past "has delivered."

I was trained as a classical dispensationalist. Kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ on David's throne) is totally future, not inaugurated, not happening now.

This verse was the one that started me on the path away from dispensationalism.

What convinced you that dispensationalism was built on an weak sub-structure? (I know, the question is like "When did you stop hitting your wife?")

My point is, if you hold to the future kingdom, how do you handle this?

 

[kyredneck]

This verse was the one that started me on the path away from dispensationalism.

…..the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3:2

 

[Piper]

…..the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3:2

Yes, I believe that Jesus inaugurated it when he came, that we are in it already and not yet, to use the common parlance.

 

[kyredneck]

for the kingdom of God is … righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. To 14:17

 

[kyredneck]

for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pe 1:11

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: … Jn 18:36

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Mark 1:15. "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel/"

Luke 11:20. "But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you."

The kingdom of God came with the King; It started small and grew, and is still growing until He comes again.

Luke 13:18-19. "What is the kingdom of God like? To what shall I compare it? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and put in his garden; and it grew and became a large tree, and the birds of the air nested in its branches."

 

[unprofitable]

Matt 21:43 says, "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you (someone had to possess it AT THAT TIME for it to be taken away) AND given to a nation (body of people) bringing forth the fruit thereof.

If it is not now a reality, are we still waiting for the kingdom of God to be given to a nation?

To whom/what nation/body of people was the kingdom given?

Did he make the kingdom universal and invisible or is local, visible, and scriptural/spiritual?

Have we been without the kingdom of God for 2000 years?

Surely not. Psalms 145:13 says, "Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations."

Luke 17:21 says, "...behold the kingdom of God is within you." In context and continuation with the old testament we understand Christ was saying the kingdom of God is IN THE MIDST of you or coming forth, being made manifest, or being revealed as a body of people/nation.

What nation has been bringing forth the fruit thereof? To whom was the Holy Spirit given to bring forth such fruit?

The candlestick/Holy Spirit was removed from Israel as a covenant nation and given to the kingdom that Christ was bringing forth in Mt 16:18. He said, "...upon this rock I will build my CHURCH." This was the prophesied gathering in of the scattered of Israel and where the two sticks are made one in Christ. (Isa 11:12) "Where there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one (a nation, brethren) IN Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:28) To be IN CHRIST is to be IN NEW covenant relationship as a wife/bride that can bring forth the seedline of her husband. The new covenant blueprint and Holy Spirit was given to the church at Jerusalem then subsequently to surrounding churches throughout the world (Matt 28:20). The new covenant is the blueprint/constitution of the kingdom given to the scriptural church. Ephesians 3:10 says that it "(...might be known by THE CHURCH the manifold wisdom (will) of God." It is the blueprint by which WE are to be conformed to his express image, to be made like unto him, to be made holy and righteous, to do judgment and justice. (Gen 1:26)

Christ saying his kingdom was not of this world meant not formed/created after the vain imagination/image of men and by their effort/direction. Isaiah 46:5 says, "To whom will ye liken me and make me equal, and compare me that we may be alike?" Their vain imagination would not let them see the form of the kingdom and her king. John 1:11 says, He came unto his own and his own received him not." John 3:3 says, "Except a man be born again (from above, to come out of or down from) he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Christ caused the old covenant kingdom to end/be fulfilled but not without the advent of the new covenant kingdom locally, visibly and spiritually.

 

[unprofitable]

The millennial kingdom will be the restoring of the oracles of God to a kingdom that has become as Jerusalem during the time of Ezra and Nehemiah where the gates were burned and the walls were bowing out because of the violence done to her. (Matt 11:12). (Mt 13:13)

 

[Van]

Would it be too much to ask for a definition of "kingdom?"
Everyone spiritually born anew has entered "the kingdom of His beloved Son." But that is not the earthly kingdom where Christ rules from David's throne for 1000 years. And what about the eternal kingdom?

In 2 Peter 1:11, we see spiritually born anew people who are already spiritually within Christ's kingdom, are told their future entry into God's "eternal kingdom" will be abundantly supplied. This I think is a reference to the rewards we could earn by adhering to faithful service as contextually described in the passage.

 

[kyredneck]

In 2 Peter 1:11, we see spiritually born anew people who are already spiritually within Christ's kingdom, are told their future entry into God's "eternal kingdom" will be abundantly supplied. This I think is a reference to the rewards we could earn by adhering to faithful service as contextually described in the passage.

YES!

for the kingdom of God is … righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Ro 14:17

While we live here on earth, to have life and to have it abundantly, we're not guaranteed of that simply because we've been 'born from above'. It takes conscious effort on our part to partake of the joys of the kingdom:

5 Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge;
6 and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness;
7 and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love.
8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.
10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:
11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1

 

[37818]

Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son. in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Past "has delivered."

I was trained as a classical dispensationalist. Kingdom (1000 year reign of Christ on David's throne) is totally future, not inaugurated, not happening now.

This verse was the one that started me on the path away from dispensationalism.

What convinced you that dispensationalism was built on an weak sub-structure? (I know, the question is like "When did you stop hitting your wife?")

My point is, if you hold to the future kingdom, how do you handle this?

It has three stages. When one is saved one is a member of the kingdom. In the millennium one will rule with Christ the human kingdoms which became Christ's for that thousand years. Then after the judgment only the saved will see the kingdom itself, Revelation 21:27 [ per John 3:3].

 

[Van]

Romans 14:17 (NASB)
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Several times in the New Testament we find the phrase "the kingdom of God is" and then something accomplished within and by the Kingdom of God is described. Here, we see eating and drinking is not the sort of thing accomplished, but rather, righteousness, peace and joy is accomplished within the Holy Spirit of Christ.

We are made righteous, Romans 5:19.
We have peace with God, Romans 5:1
We have joy in Christ, Jude 1:24.

 

[unprofitable]

The kingdom indeed is not meat and drink. Those things that cause a stumbling block in their misuse or OT applications are to be done away with in Christ thru the new covenant. Rom 14:17 and preceding verses are not spiritualizing away eating and drinking in the current kingdom of God as the body of Christ.

We do see eating and drinking in the kingdom in the context of the observance of the ordinance of the Lord's supper.

Christ also promises there will be eating and drinking in millennial kingdom. Luke 22:30 and Matt 26:29

Proverbs 22:10 says, "Cast out the scorner and contention shall go out, strife and reproach shall cease." When stumbling blocks and divisions are removed, the brethren dwell in peace. Psalms 133:1 says, "How good and how pleasant it is for the brethren to dwell together in unity." When there is unity, there is peace. Christ prayed for the unity and peace of the brethren in the 17th chapter of John. This is to be the state of the literal local visible assembly as the gathering place of the kingdom congregation. The three verses Van quoted are to be accomplished in the body of Christ as the church or new covenant assembly where the Holy Spirit is given and the Godhead dwells with their people. They are not possible outside the gates.

 

[Dave G]

My point is, if you hold to the future kingdom, how do you handle this?

Spiritually, all of God's children are "in the kingdom"...
Physically, He has yet to come and establish it here on earth.

So, in a sense we who have trusted in Him are in it...joined together by the Spirit of God that dwells within each and every true believer.
But in the experiential sense, we look forward to the physical, real presence of the Lord Jesus Christ ruling and reigning from His father David's throne at Jerusalem for 1,000 years, and, after all things are made new ( per Revelation 21 ), His rule from the New Jerusalem for all eternity.

 

[unprofitable]

Consider this.

Christ says in Matt 11:12, "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. This the literal sometimes violent persecution of a gathered people beginning with the Jews resistance of John the Baptist and his work to prepare a people, nation and therefore a kingdom, for the Lord. (Luke 1:17)

Just as David prepared the material for Solomon to build the temple so John gathered the people together that the Lord might build and rule over them through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I Peter 2:5 says, "Ye also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house (temple) an holy priesthood, able to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God thru Christ Jesus." With the temple being built the nation has a place to worship the Father when gathered together as a body of Christ.

1 Peter 2:9 says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy NATION, a peculiar PEOPLE (then a kingdom)...This is why an individual cannot be a church or a nation. This is the significance of the gathering TOGETHER of God's people to edify the body of Christ, a nation not built by the hands of men or their vain imaginations.

We, as Baptists, are not recognized by the UN as a nation as are the catholics. Yet the body of Christ is not without authority to rule and reign as the sons of Abraham. (Gen 18:19) Luke 9:1 says "Then he called his twelve disciples TOGETHER, and gave them power and authority..."

We may lack civil authority to a degree as we cannot imprison the rebellious by physical confinment but the authority given to the body of Christ as a church is a real now as it was during the time of Christ. Matthew 18:15-18 show that authority in the body of Christ and its effect upon a rebellious member. Verse 18 says, "Verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This shows the recognition of the authority of the sons of Abraham, as a nation, people, kingdom, and generation, to do justice and judgment. (Gen 18:19) This authority cannot be exercised by an individual as individual cannot be a church or nation/kingdom so the individual, apart from the body of Christ, therefore cannot do the work/will of the Father as to building up (edifying) of the body of Christ. The duty to exclude a rebellious member causing division and dissention is a literal act perform by a literal local visible body of Christ exercising its authority as a nation. This is done by the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the body of Christ that has the heart of Christ present in it. We cannot, and must not spiritualize away the kingdom of God as it exists today.

This same authority is seen in the millennial reign of Christ. The rebellious (violent Matt 11:12) are still present and are described in Zec 14:16-19 and must be ruled by Christ and his people by a rod of iron.