Are we prepared to stand up?

[matt wade]

Why does your pastor forget to mention that greed, gluttony, and a whole myriad of other sins are just as bad? Does your church only allow sinless people to become/remain members? If your pastor finds out your sins will you be kicked out? I think when one professes to be a Christian, they are members of Christ's church. HE and HE alone will deal with them.

Ummm, I must have missed when I said I was going to inform you of every single topic my pastor has ever preached on.

Does my church only allow sinless people to become/remain members? I hope you know the answer to that. We have all sinned. There's a difference between being a sinner and being an unrepentant, letting it hang out sinner. Any church worthy of claiming to represent Jesus Christ will not allow someone to join that is unrepentant of their sin and flaunts it in the public. If a church does, then they are not a church that represents Jesus Christ. As for members that have public, unrepented sin, there is a method of dealing with them. Matthew 18.

So from what you are saying, your church would allow a professing homosexual (or professing drunk, or professing adulterer) to join as a member? If that's the case, then I suggest you start reading your Bible and find another church, because your's stinks.

 

[Revmitchell]

Why does your pastor forget to mention that greed, gluttony, and a whole myriad of other sins are just as bad? Does your church only allow sinless people to become/remain members? If your pastor finds out your sins will you be kicked out? I think when one professes to be a Christian, they are members of Christ's church. HE and HE alone will deal with them.

Scripture does not bear this out:

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

 

[JustChristian]

"I don't support homosexuality but do you suppose you have anyone engaged in adultery in your church? I don't think one is any worse than the other." Honestly I haven't heard too many adulterers fighting for there political rights to unite and stand out as an ADULTERESS COMMUNITY.

I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about sin.

 

[righteousdude2]

It is Time that the Church Be Concerned With Being....

AMERICAS EPITAPH....."They Were Politically Correct":tonofbricks:

Biblically Correct, not politically correct. To be Biblically Correct means you are moving your life in a direction that is lead by the Word and the desire of your heart is to be grounded in Holiness. When homosexuals invade the church, there is NO way that they can lay claim to being Biblically Correct. Their chosen life style may be politically correct in some circles, but they lack the all important support of the Scriptures which would make them Biblically Correct. Thus the true Church of God has nothing to worry about when it comes to homosexuals, and their attempts to be accepted by the Evangelical Church. Homosexuals, like any other form of sin walking in darkness, can not claim to be Holy, at least in the eyes of God who is the judge of Holiness.

Shalom, and blessings for the strength to stand up and fight the good fight,

Pastor Paul:type:

 

[just-want-peace]

Dare I say, that should, may God forbid, church attendance become illegal by act of congress effective 8:00 AM Sunday morning coming, how many of the members of this board would suddenly have many and varied reasons, er-r-r- excuses, NOT to attend church that day?

Now I realize that this topic had nothing directly related to the OP, but I do see a correlation between this possibility and the reasoning of many of the posters on this board.

To wit that "--it is the law, and we are told to obey the law--"

'Course there ARE some here, thankfully, that take the approach of Admiral Farragut (I think) that said, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

I just pray that should that scenario occur, I will be one of the latter!!!!


MARANATHA!!!!

 

[Jedi Knight]

"I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about sin." I think I started this thread about a certain community politically pushing their agenda...... not just any sin.

 

[Jedi Knight]

"AMERICAS EPITAPH....."They Were Politically Correct" This was a quote from Hal Lindsey:thumbs:

 

[JustChristian]

"I'm not talking about politics. I'm talking about sin." I think I started this thread about a certain community politically pushing their agenda...... not just any sin.

So your problem with them is strictly political and not spiritual?

 

[Jedi Knight]

"So your problem with them is strictly political and not spiritual?" Spiritually they are blind"by the god of this world" that's a given. But they have been pushing their lifestyle on all fronts for acceptance. They don't see it as sin and if we strongly disagree......well.....its on!

 

[Surfer Joe]

Ummm, I must have missed when I said I was going to inform you of every single topic my pastor has ever preached on.

Does my church only allow sinless people to become/remain members? I hope you know the answer to that. We have all sinned. There's a difference between being a sinner and being an unrepentant, letting it hang out sinner. Any church worthy of claiming to represent Jesus Christ will not allow someone to join that is unrepentant of their sin and flaunts it in the public. If a church does, then they are not a church that represents Jesus Christ. As for members that have public, unrepented sin, there is a method of dealing with them. Matthew 18.

So from what you are saying, your church would allow a professing homosexual (or professing drunk, or professing adulterer) to join as a member? If that's the case, then I suggest you start reading your Bible and find another church, because your's stinks.

I never said you had to inform me of every thing your pastor preaches on. However, you are the one judging people for their sins yet you and your pastor seem to have the inability to acknowledge other sins.

How do you know an unrepentant homosexual is not a Christian. All one needs to be a Christian is faith in Christ. I believe that the Holy Spirit will help them to work out their salvation and then they will cease from their sin. However, I also believe one can still be a homosexual and just not practising and be a Christian. If one can be a recovering alcoholic and refraining from drinking, it stands to reason that one can be a homosexual whilst refraining from the act. THAT...is between them and God.

Yes, there is a method of dealing with members with unrepentant sin. Jesus says to treat them like a tax collector but how did Jesus treat tax collectors? He loved them. He ate dinner with them. We are supposed to forbid them from participating in the Lord's Supper but that is IT. Read that passage again.

My church would allow anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ and believes He is their Saviour to become a member. Hmm...you are saying my church stinks at the same time you and your pastor ignore the sins that you and him commit. :BangHead:

 

[Surfer Joe]

Scripture does not bear this out:

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

The verses from Romans mention nothing about homosexuals. It does mention those who cause divisions.

Oh look. Greed is mentioned there. How come so many Christians seem to forget that 'little' sin and just condemn homosexuals? And that "not even to eat with such a one" refers to the Lord's Supper. It is not talking about ostracizing someone.

 

[matt wade]

I never said you had to inform me of every thing your pastor preaches on. However, you are the one judging people for their sins yet you and your pastor seem to have the inability to acknowledge other sins. Those being, the ones you are guilty of, no?

You sure make a lot of assumptions and try and present them as facts, don't you? My pastor preaches against all types of sin. Sorry, I'm not going to list them all for you. You mentioned greed, gluttony, and "a whole myriad of other sins". Yes, those are sins and are just as bad. What's your point?

How do you know an unrepentant homosexual is not a Christian. All one needs to be a Christian is faith in Christ. I believe that the Holy Spirit will help them to work out their salvation and then they will cease from their sin. However, I also believe one can still be a homosexual and just not practising and be a Christian. If one can be a recovering alcoholic and refraining from drinking, it stands to reason that one can be a homosexual whilst refraining from the act. THAT...is between them and God.

I never said an unrepentant homosexual is not a Christian. There you go again with your assumptions. I said my church would not allow an open homosexual to join our church. My church would not allow any person to join when they are open about, unrepentant, and flaunting their sin. That includes any sin. If someone was a homosexual and has repented of their sin, they would be welcome to join. Again, that applies to any other sin as well.

Yes, there is a method of dealing with members with unrepentant sin and I'll bet you don't know what it is. Jesus says to treat them like a tax collector but how did Jesus treat tax collectors? He loved them. He ate dinner with them. We are supposed to forbid them from participating in the Lord's Supper but that is IT. Read that passage again.

Does Jesus love tax collectors? Of course. Does Jesus love homosexuals? Of course. Jesus loves everybody and so should we. That still doesn't mean we should accept open homosexuals as members in our churchs.

You say that we should only forbid sinners from the Lord's Supper and that's it? Where do you get this from? Have you not read how Jesus told us to deal with church discipline? You are telling me to read the passage again, how about you try reading it? (Matthew 18:15-17)

So, by your line of thinking since we should only forbid sinners from the Lord's Supper, is it OK for an open homosexual (or any other open and unrepentant sinner) to be in a position of ministry? A pastor? A sunday school teacher?

My church would allow anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ and believes He is their Saviour to become a member. Hmm...you are saying my church stinks at the same time you and your pastor ignore the sins that you and him commit. :BangHead:

Again, you and your assumptions. How do I and my pastor (who you don't know, never talked to, yet you judge him) ignore the sins that we commit? Of course I commit sins. Of course my pastor sins. We are both sinners saved by God's Grace. I beg forgiveness from God every day.

I'll say it again. If your church allows open homosexuals (or any other open and unrepentant sinner) to become/remain members it stinks. Not only does it stink, it's a poor excuse for a church and should shut it's doors.

 

[matt wade]

Wait a second...I've just figured out the issue here. Surfer Joe is a Church of Christer (according to his profile). Why are you in the "Baptist Only" forum?

It certainly explains his acceptance of homosexuality and his liberal views.

 

[Robert Snow]

I believe it will be a contest as to what destroys this country as it was constituted.

1. God because of this countries endorsement of the homosexual agenda.

2. The political correctness that causes this country to close its eyes to the danger of Muslim immigration and the eventual acceptance of Sharia Law.

3. The invasion from south of the border and the democrat party's ability to garner the vote of these people as well as the blacks.

Three excellent observations! I fear number two as the most dangerous, followed closely by number one.

 

[Surfer Joe]

Wait a second...I've just figured out the issue here. Surfer Joe is a Church of Christer (according to his profile). Why are you in the "Baptist Only" forum?

It certainly explains his acceptance of homosexuality and his liberal views.

Because I was a member of a Baptist church before I moved to Indiana. Don't forget to quote my profile...I said that I still maintain Baptist beliefs. And even if I were completely not a Baptist, how much of a "Baptist DEBATE" forum would this be if nobody could DEBATE?

Now, I am not a "Church of Christer". I am a member of the United Church of Christ. More importantly, I am a born again Christian.

Where did I say I "accept homosexuality"? What "liberal views"? Defend your accusations, or don't make them.

The fact of the matter is, I do not "accept homosexuality" and I never said I did. What does the Bible say about lying and making false accusations against a brother? Somehow I know that you're going to excuse those sins because you've committed them. :BangHead:

 

[Surfer Joe]

You sure make a lot of assumptions and try and present them as facts, don't you? My pastor preaches against all types of sin. Sorry, I'm not going to list them all for you. You mentioned greed, gluttony, and "a whole myriad of other sins". Yes, those are sins and are just as bad. What's your point?

My point is you don't condemn the greedy, the gluttons, etc. But you're quick to condemn others. You and your pastor.[/endquote]


I never said an unrepentant homosexual is not a Christian. There you go again with your assumptions. I said my church would not allow an open homosexual to join our church. My church would not allow any person to join when they are open about, unrepentant, and flaunting their sin. That includes any sin. If someone was a homosexual and has repented of their sin, they would be welcome to join. Again, that applies to any other sin as well.

Glad to hear that. Finally.[/endquote]


Does Jesus love tax collectors? Of course. Does Jesus love homosexuals? Of course. Jesus loves everybody and so should we. That still doesn't mean we should accept open homosexuals as members in our churchs.

And I agree. However, there are many Christians who disagree with you and the best you could come up with is "you and your church stink".[/endquote]

You say that we should only forbid sinners from the Lord's Supper and that's it? Where do you get this from? Have you not read how Jesus told us to deal with church discipline? You are telling me to read the passage again, how about you try reading it? (Matthew 18:15-17)

Yep. Jesus said to treat them like tax collectors. How did he treat them? Hmm? Church discipline according to the context in 1 Corinthians (where it is talking about the Lord's Supper by the way) says not to eat with them. Common sense says it's talking about not letting them participate in the Lord's Supper. Go ahead. Read it.[/endquote]

So, by your line of thinking since we should only forbid sinners from the Lord's Supper, is it OK for an open homosexual (or any other open and unrepentant sinner) to be in a position of ministry? A pastor? A sunday school teacher?

Nope. Nobody who is unrepentant should be in any of those positions. You haven't followed my line of thinking at all though. I said that sinning Christians should not be allowed to partake of the Lord's Supper.[/endquote]



Again, you and your assumptions. How do I and my pastor (who you don't know, never talked to, yet you judge him) ignore the sins that we commit? Of course I commit sins. Of course my pastor sins. We are both sinners saved by God's Grace. I beg forgiveness from God every day.

But your sins are far less worse than those...gasp...homosexuals. I don't have to know you or your pastor. I read your posts.[/endquote]

I'll say it again. If your church allows open homosexuals (or any other open and unrepentant sinner) to become/remain members it stinks. Not only does it stink, it's a poor excuse for a church and should shut it's doors.

LOL you are the one assuming now. My local church does not allow open homosexuals or open sinners to become/remain members. Just because I am trying to open your eyes does not mean my church stinks. And if your church has a bunch of bigots such as you are presenting yourself to be, how long shall your church's doors remain open?

 

[Surfer Joe]

I apologize to everyone reading this. I do not know how to insert quotes in a post.

 

[Surfer Joe]

First of all, I am sorry for some of the things I said. I was hardly gracious.

Second, it appears you are right when it comes to 1 Corinthians 6. However, it bothers me that many people use this to condemn people instead of loving them.

Third, you were a bit off on using Matthew 18 for a church discipline issue when someone is a homosexual. That passage is only talking about how you handle a situation where a brother sins against you personally.

 

[gb93433]

I see more and more of the homosexual community infiltrating schools,christian date sight E harmony"was sued",and calling our disloyalty to their agenda a HATE CRIME? One recently tried to put Miss California on the spot with a gay agenda question. What about OUR churches? Pastor,congregation prepared for this? I just see some dark clouds on the horizon of our christian freedom and Obamas not helping. Like to here my fellow believers comment on this.

Leadership begins with a leader.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I don't support homosexuality but do you suppose you have anyone engaged in adultry in your church? I don't think one is any worse than the other.

The difference is that I don't know of any adulterers who are demanding that society, including the church, change to suit their adultery.