Are windmills killing too many birds?

[padredurand]

I was at work today spending some time in the porcelain office. I had paper work to do when I noticed something interesting concerning material management. Apparently cardboard tubes inside the TP roll kills trees, reduces wetlands and causes birds of prey to fly into windmills.

The solution to the problem is to remove the cardboard and replace it with a tightly wound core of TP. From the perspective of the end user I was trying to figure out this was supposed to save trees. Since the demise of the Sears catalog TP has come wound around a cardboard tube with the exception of John Wayne TP that used to come in C-Rations, but I digress. When you were done you had a small cardboard tube that could be used for 100 craft ideas or put in the garbage. Environmentally friendly TP leaves you with a 3/4" dense core of useless TP that you cannot unwind for life or money.

I pretty sure the leftover core was no where near as dense while it was standing pulp wood. You can't unroll it. You can't use it for its intended purpose. What you have is a highly refined stick that uses a lot more paper than the tube it replaced.

I don't quite get how they figure we can save a tree by using more paper. I don't have to figure it out. I'm not the one that put mental in environmental.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was at work today spending some time in the porcelain office. I had paper work to do when I noticed something interesting concerning material management. Apparently cardboard tubes inside the TP roll kills trees, reduces wetlands and causes birds of prey to fly into windmills.

The solution to the problem is to remove the cardboard and replace it with a tightly wound core of TP. From the perspective of the end user I was trying to figure out this was supposed to save trees. Since the demise of the Sears catalog TP has come wound around a cardboard tube with the exception of John Wayne TP that used to come in C-Rations, but I digress. When you were done you had a small cardboard tube that could be used for 100 craft ideas or put in the garbage. Environmentally friendly TP leaves you with a 3/4" dense core of useless TP that you cannot unwind for life or money.

I pretty sure the leftover core was no where near as dense while it was standing pulp wood. You can't unroll it. You can't use it for its intended purpose. What you have is a highly refined stick that uses a lot more paper than the tube it replaced.

I don't quite get how they figure we can save a tree by using more paper. I don't have to figure it out. I'm not the one that put mental in environmental.

Ohhhooooo Ahhhh dear Lord.....you gotta knack, I will give you that.:laugh:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I was at work today spending some time in the porcelain office. I had paper work to do when I noticed something interesting concerning material management. Apparently cardboard tubes inside the TP roll kills trees, reduces wetlands and causes birds of prey to fly into windmills.

The solution to the problem is to remove the cardboard and replace it with a tightly wound core of TP. From the perspective of the end user I was trying to figure out this was supposed to save trees. Since the demise of the Sears catalog TP has come wound around a cardboard tube with the exception of John Wayne TP that used to come in C-Rations, but I digress. When you were done you had a small cardboard tube that could be used for 100 craft ideas or put in the garbage. Environmentally friendly TP leaves you with a 3/4" dense core of useless TP that you cannot unwind for life or money.

I pretty sure the leftover core was no where near as dense while it was standing pulp wood. You can't unroll it. You can't use it for its intended purpose. What you have is a highly refined stick that uses a lot more paper than the tube it replaced.

I don't quite get how they figure we can save a tree by using more paper. I don't have to figure it out. I'm not the one that put mental in environmental.

I'm pretty sure you're spending way too much time in the porcelain office, and if that is because of circumstances beyond your control, I truly am sorry for you. :laugh:

 

[padredurand]

I'm pretty sure you're spending way too much time in the porcelain office, and if that is because of circumstances beyond your control, I truly am sorry for you. :laugh:

It was a moment of opportunity. There were about a half dozen of those cores laying around the men's room. When the roll gets down to the spot where the paper is fused into this unusable stick they pop out of the dispenser like a shell out of a shotgun. They aren't good for anything but half the world is convinced some enviro-nazi will come crashing through the door to arrest you for wasting the life of a dead tree. They are all afraid of throwing them in the garbage.

I foresee yet another container in the men's room that has no other function but to be a responsible way of disposing of these cores. T-shirts, seminars and an online course will be offered. 15 managers will have to fly to Florida for a conference and one lucky stiff can drive a Prius for a week for winning the "Don't Waste the Core" themed poster contest. Video on the 11 o'clock news. :flower:

 

[Crabtownboy]

It's a crock.

Those huge windmills turn slow enough for a turtle to get out of the way.

They are big, so they look slow ... but the blades are moving very fast.

Have you notices how slow jet liners appear to be going when they are landing?

The B75 turbine blade itself is 75 meters long, while the entire rotor assembly measures 154 meters in diameter. As it spins, the blades cover an area of 18,600 square meters—that's roughly two and a half soccer fields—at a brisk 80 meters per second, or 180 MPH at the tips.

http://gizmodo.com/5930272/the-worl...blades-are-so-long-their-tips-spin-at-180-mph

Here is a list of speeds for various models:

http://www.aweo.org/windmodels.html

 

[kyredneck]

CTB, I've been tryin' to tell em', we need to go nuclear to save the birds....

 

[padredurand]

They are big, so they look slow ... but the blades are moving very fast.

Did you know on a 33 1/3 record the groove speed is 8.3 inches per second on the inside and 20 inches on the outside? Math is crazy!

We have two wind farms in the immediate area. Before they were built, the developers talked about how eco-friendly their project was, the impact on the environment and the financial impact on the community. There was hearing after hearing with both sides making endless claims as to the supposed benefit and detriment of wind power.

End result? We currently have the highest electric rates in local history in spite of the claim our rates would go down. The only local folks who profited are the land owners who leased their property to the developer.

Nobody has published any reports on bird strikes yet. We have a healthy coyote population and I'm thinking the coyotes are enjoying whatever collateral damage the windmills may be creating.

 

[kyredneck]

...End result? We currently have the highest electric rates in local history in spite of the claim our rates would go down.....

Solar is no better:

"...The cost of building and operating the Finnish nuclear plant over the next 20 years will be $15 billion. Over that time period, the plant will generate 225 terawatt-hours (twh) of electricity at a cost of 7 cents per kilowatt hour.

Since 2000, Germany has heavily subsidized electricity production from solar panels—offering long-term contracts to producers to purchase electricity at prices substantially above wholesale rates. The resulting solar installations are expected to generate 400 twh electricity over the 20 years that the panels will receive the subsidy, at a total cost to German ratepayers of $130 billion, or 32 cents per kwh.

In short, solar electricity in Germany will cost almost five times more for every kilowatt hour of electricity it provides than Finland’s new nuclear plant...."

Environmentalists for Nuclear Power

 

[padredurand]

Solar is no better:

"...The cost of building and operating the Finnish nuclear plant over the next 20 years will be $15 billion. Over that time period, the plant will generate 225 terawatt-hours (twh) of electricity at a cost of 7 cents per kilowatt hour.

Since 2000, Germany has heavily subsidized electricity production from solar panels—offering long-term contracts to producers to purchase electricity at prices substantially above wholesale rates. The resulting solar installations are expected to generate 400 twh electricity over the 20 years that the panels will receive the subsidy, at a total cost to German ratepayers of $130 billion, or 32 cents per kwh.

In short, solar electricity in Germany will cost almost five times more for every kilowatt hour of electricity it provides than Finland’s new nuclear plant...."

Environmentalists for Nuclear Power

I'm hearing ya! I'd love to have a little reactor in the trunk of the Caddy. Leave nothing behind beside a plume of steam!

We're trying to meet our energy demands under the thumb of a very loud and well funded bunch. They're idiots.

Solar power! It's free (other than the billions in construction and development) and good for the environment. Then in California:

A new report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service finds that solar facilities in California are acting like “mega traps” that kill and injure birds. As a result, “entire food chains” are being disrupted.

www.washingtontimes.com

Now the hemp-sandaled ones are complaining about 71 species of flash-fried birds. Same thing with whacking them with windmills.

The bottom line is the environmentalist don't want any alternative energy. Their default position is that man is ruining their Mother Earth and man should be removed. Everything else is just a concession on their part.

It makes me puke to hear how noble they are driving their little Nissan Leafs. The dipsticks will point to the wall plug and tell you how environmentally conscious they are. Where in the name of Sam Hill do they think the electricity came from? They forget the coal-fired plant that provided the power.

So we can't have wind power because birds can't figure out how to fly around windmills. Solar is out because the birds that dodged the windmill got poofed on the solar farm. Hydro disrupts the breeding patterns of fish, coal is evil, fossil fuels are sweat from the devil's brow. We can't burn wood in our quaint little town because folks don't like the smell of woodsmoke. We can't have cows because they produce methane when they... ummm, break wind.

I'm waiting for some yahoo to sue me for fanning myself with my hand out of fear -through the butterfly effect - that I'll start a rainstorm in Japan. :BangHead:

And what about nuclear power?

We have identified 33 serious incidents and accidents at nuclear power stations since the first recorded one in 1952 at Chalk River in Ontario, Canada. Source

Why that's nearly one incident every 2 years. Of course half of them reported disasters were limited to a single personal injury but I don't want to spoil the feigned outrage with facts.

 

[kyredneck]

I'm hearing ya! I'd love to have a little reactor in the trunk of the Caddy. Leave nothing behind beside a plume of steam!.....

Heheh, that may not be as far away as one would think. With these new Gen 4s they're already designing prototypes that are portable (like an emergency generator for a large building or complex) and need no refueling for up to ten years!

 

[padredurand]

Heheh, that may not be as far away as one would think. With these new Gen 4s they're already designing prototypes that are portable (like an emergency generator for a large building or complex) and need no refueling for up to ten years!

That would beat the plumbing out of my twice a week stop at Haji-Mart to fuel up. :laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

Lol, our's is fondly referred to as Paki-Mart...

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

... at Haji-Mart to fuel up. :laugh:

... referred to as Paki-Mart...

At the risk of sounding prejudiced, that's why I prefer ...

 

[padredurand]

At the risk of sounding prejudiced, that's why I prefer ...

Ain't another gas station for miles in either direction. Nice enough feller but I don't know if he's saying, "Have a nice day." or "Die Infidel!" Oh, the cost of country living.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Ain't another gas station for miles in either direction. Nice enough feller but I don't know if he's saying, "Have a nice day." or "Die Infidel!" Oh, the cost of country living.

Know the feeling. Oh, for the days when I bought my gas from "Carl" and went to high school with his "hick kid" -- who, to everyone's surprise (we all figured he'd end up going to prison for pot or worse) became a NASCAR crew chief before he bought part-interest in a Nationwide team. :laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

Our's was a 'nice enough feller', had cheap gas, flew the American flag out front, served good breakfast & lunch, but now he's up on racketeering charges (heroin, he's the only one of that whole clan they've charged so far), hasn't been out of jail for about a year now.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh my goodness.....bunch of racest white guys! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Our's was a 'nice enough feller', had cheap gas, flew the American flag out front, served good breakfast & lunch, but now he's up on racketeering charges (heroin, he's the only one of that whole clan they've charged so far), hasn't been out of jail for about a year now.

Ha ha ha...."had cheap gas & flew the American flag...ahhhhhhh haaaa oh ....up on racketeering charges...:laugh: ah too much.

Larry, did you give him your credit card for any purchases? :tongue3: oh oh oh!!!

 

[Winman]

I can go just a couple of miles and take a video in real time. Will that do?

They turn unbelievably slow, even in windy West Texas. They have governors on them that prevent them from freewheeling too fast.

The image the story presents is one of a propeller turning fast and chewing up unaware birds. The real image is one of a bird committing suicide to run into one of the blades. They don't turn fast enough to hit the bird. The bird, instead, has to almost take aim to hit one.

The other piece of information left out is that thousands more eagles are electrocuted by power lines each year. The great eagle slaughter by wind turbines is certainly overblown.

Here is a video of a bird being hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRSAvD8VAbI

It appears that the problem is the windmills actually attract the birds, they like to fly on the updrafts caused by the windmill.

 

[carpro]

They are big, so they look slow ... but the blades are moving very fast.

Physics 101 Even though the tips are moving faster than closer to the center, it takes the same amount of time at the tips as at the center to go from point a to point b. So it really doesn't matter. If they are a real danger to birds, they are just as dangerous close to the center as at the outer tips. bottom line is that the danger is grossly overblown.


I wonder how fast the power lines are moving that kill millions of birds...