Are women really saved by childbearing?

[Deacon]

I'm studying through 1 Timothy and having some problems integrating 1 Timothy 2:15 with its context (2:8-15).

1 Timothy 2:15 (ESV 2016)
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Are women really saved through childbearing?

Rob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you doubt scripture cause I know that you live by the gospels.

 

[JonC]

I'm studying through 1 Timothy and having some problems integrating 1 Timothy 2:15 with its context (2:8-15).

1 Timothy 2:15 (ESV 2016)
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Are women really saved through childbearing?

Rob

I understand the passage to be referring to women in general in the aspect of Eve (and the Messiah that would come through woman) coupled with the role of woman within Creation.

It is a difficult ult passage as Paul doesn't expound on that point but instead uses it to reinforce his reason for male leadership in the congregation.

 

[JesusFan]

I understand the passage to be referring to women in general in the aspect of Eve (and the Messiah that would come through woman) coupled with the role of woman within Creation.

It is a difficult ult passage as Paul doesn't expound on that point but instead uses it to reinforce his reason for male leadership in the congregation.

Could be Paul stating that=at that women are saved due to the truth that Mary gave birth to the Messiah Lord Jesus, maybe?

 

[canadyjd]

Paul is not saying women achieve salvation (a right relationship with God) by bearing children.

The passage could mean women would survive childbirth through faith, love, holiness and self-control….

…. Or…. Because the close proximity to mentioning Eve and God’s promise to her, it is a reference the seed of the woman bringing salvation, as others have stated.

I favor the latter, but it is a somewhat difficult passage. Good luck with the Bible study.

Peace to you

 

[Deacon]

Childbearing as it is related to the birth of the Messiah is a common interpretation.
I have some difficulties with it.

1) Both men and women are saved by grace through faith.
2) The incarnation, the Childbearing happened in the past. Why not mention Christ's death and resurrection where the work was finished. (In fact, why is it necessary to mention that at all)
3) Why mention gender in that case, for both women and men are saved through that Childbearing

Rob

 

[Deacon]

Concerning the integration of the passage with the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 2...

Some commentators have suggested that the passage was directed towards a particular problem encountered by Timothy.
That would make Paul's statements singularly addressed to a problem in that church and not necessarily to the Whole Body of Believers.

I've resisted that interpretation in the past, but my studies recently have made that idea quite appealing.

The passage could mean women would survive childbirth through faith, love, holiness and self-control….

Would that mean that the many women who died in childbirth in the past did not have enough faith, love holiness or self-control?

…doesn’t seem right.

Rob

 

[37818]

1 Timothy 2:13-15, . . . For Adam was first formed, then Eve. xref-2
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, . . .

Genesis 3:15, . . .And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; . . .

Galatians 4:4, . . . But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, . . . .

 

[JonC]

Could be Paul stating that=at that women are saved due to the truth that Mary gave birth to the Messiah Lord Jesus, maybe?

I think that is what Paul is point to in terms of roles. But that's just my understanding of the verse.

 

[JonC]

Concerning the integration of the passage with the whole chapter of 1 Timothy 2...

Some commentators have suggested that the passage was directed towards a particular problem encountered by Timothy.
That would make Paul's statements singularly addressed to a problem in that church and not necessarily to the Whole Body of Believers.

I've resisted that interpretation in the past, but my studies recently have made that idea quite appealing.

Would that mean that the many women who died in childbirth in the past did not have enough faith, love holiness or self-control?

…doesn’t seem right.

Rob

How did that deal with a contemporary issue (and what issue)?

I'll probably resist it but come around at a date TBA.

 

[Deacon]

1 Timothy 2 OBSERVATIONS/OUTLINE/QUESTIONS

1. Prayer Defined (1 Ti 2:1) [HOW THEY SHOULD PRAY]
A. supplication
B. prayers
C. intercessions
D. thanksgiving

2. to live a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way (1 Ti 2:2)

3. Pray for: [WHO THEY SHOULD PRAY FOR]
A. all people
B. kings, all who are in high positions

4. Motivation to pray
A. It is good and pleasing to God (1 Ti 2:3)

5. Purpose of Prayer (1 Ti 2:3–6) [WHY THEY SHOULD PRAY]
A. We pray because God desires all people… (1 Ti 2:4)
1) ...to be saved
2) ...to come to the knowledge of the truth
3) This does not mean all will be saved
4) This does mean God loves all people (Jn 3:16)

6. CONFESSION OF FAITH - The “testimony” of Christ Jesus (1 Ti 2:5-6) [THE GOD WE PRAY TO]
A. One God/One mediator between God and man (1 Ti 2:5) (Study TRINITY)
B. Jesus is unique in who he is (one mediator)
C. Jesus is unique in what he did (gave himself as a random) for all (1 Ti 2:6)
D. How can God’s desire (or will) ‘that ‘all’ be saved’ be reconciled with the fact that all people are not saved? (Study Election/Predestination)

7. Paul’s purpose, his calling, (his testimony) (1 Ti 2:7)
A. MISSION: to proclaim in faith and truth…
B. called as… (1 Ti 2:7)
1) a preacher / a herald (a public messenger)
2) an apostle (a called one)
3) or an “apostolic herald”
4) a teacher of the gentiles

8. Who should pray and in what manner should they pray (1 Timothy 2:8-15) [MANNER OF PRAYER]
“Paul encourages public behavior that will enable believers to “live a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.” (1 Ti 2:2) The instructions to women are also justified with an appeal to behavior that is appropriate “for women who profess godliness” (1 Tim 2:10). Douglas Mangum, Lexham Research Commentary, 1 Timothy

A. Men (1 Ti 2:8)
1) without anger
2) without quarreling
B. Women (1 Ti 2:9-15)
1) outward appearance (1 Ti 2:9)
2) respectable apparel
3) modest and self-controlled
a) not braided with gold and pearls (c.f. 1 Peter 3:3-6)
b) not with costly attire
c). act and dress as a woman who is godly (1 Ti 2:10)
d). she is to learn quietly, submissively (1 Ti 2:11; c.f. 1 Peter 3:5)
e) she is not to teach or presume authority (1 Ti 2:12)

 

[Reynolds]

I'm studying through 1 Timothy and having some problems integrating 1 Timothy 2:15 with its context (2:8-15).

1 Timothy 2:15 (ESV 2016)
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Are women really saved through childbearing?

Rob

John Macarthur, in his commentary, basically says he does not understand that passage. If he doesn't, I sure don't.

 

[Deacon]

It's been awhile since I've read any of John MacArthur's books - I don't like the few I've read.
My impression is that he is polarizing.

I may need to borrow that commentary just for the quote though! Good for him!

Rob

 

[Reynolds]

It's been awhile since I've read any of John MacArthur's books - I don't like the few I've read.
My impression is that he is polarizing.

I may need to borrow that commentary just for the quote though! Good for him!

Rob

I like his commentary, but I myself am admittedly polarizing.
His exact words are "This is a notoriously difficult-to-understand verse.".

 

[37818]

FYI. in 1 Timothy 2:13-15, the "she" refer to Eve in the context.
. . . Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, . . .

 

[canadyjd]

FYI. in 1 Timothy 2:13-15, the "she" refer to Eve in the context.
. . . Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, . . .

Or, the “she” could refer to the women who are not allowed to teach or have authority over men.

Peace to you

 

[37818]

Or, the “she” could refer to the women who are not allowed to teach or have authority over men.

Peace to you

But doesn't

1 Timothy 2:13-15, . . . For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, . . .

Genesis 3:15, . . .And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; . . .

Galatians 4:4, . . . But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, . . . .

The childbearing singular refers to the birth of Christ our Savior.

. . . if so be that they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. [ Verses 9-10 ]

 

[Deacon]

I like his commentary, but I myself am admittedly polarizing.
His exact words are "This is a notoriously difficult-to-understand verse.".

ESV Study Bible [Link]
2:15 This is a notoriously difficult-to-understand verse. Paul clearly does not believe people can be saved in the sense of earning justification through childbearing or any other means (e.g., Eph. 2:8–9). But the NT can also use the term “saved” (Gk. sōzō) in the sense of progressively coming to experience all the aspects of salvation. In that sense, “salvation” is ongoing (see note on Phil. 2:12–13). A similar view is that “saved” can be understood as referring especially to the endurance and perseverance in faith that is necessary for eternal salvation (cf. Matt. 10:22; 24:13; etc.). People are saved as they persevere (continue) in the faith to carry out the Lord’s calling in their life, one example being the unique role of women in childbearing. (The change from singular she to plural they is a literal rendering of the Gk. text.)
Crossway Bibles. 2008. The ESV Study Bible. Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.
~~~~~~~~~

Still pondering... I'm not satisfied with the answer.
If this is the answer it would apply to both men and women! >>> Why point the saving/sanctification towards only women?

I'll move on in my studies and leave the interpretation of this passage open for further evaluation.
The inability to understand the context and meaning lend to move me closer to a problem that Paul was addressing that was contemporary to his time... and that we not longer have access to knowing.

Rob

 

[Deacon]

Marshall, I. Howard, and Philip H. Towner. 2004. A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles [link], International Critical Commentary. London; New York: T&T Clark International. pp. 468ff.

...the following interpretations of the clause have been proposed:
(a) Salvation by the birth of Jesus: ‘She will be saved by the bearing (of the Messiah by Mary).’ ...
(b) Salvation despite having to bear children: ‘She will be saved despite bearing children with pain.’ ...
(c) Physical safety during childbirth: ‘She will be brought safely through childbirth.’ ...
(d) Salvation by means of bearing children: ‘She will be saved by (the physical pain of) childbirth. ...
(e) Deliverance from the temptations of Satan by keeping to their proper role: ‘She will be delivered from Satan by [not transgressing into the role of teacher and] restricting herself to family responsibilities.’ ...
(f) Perseverance in (and towards final) salvation in the proper role of women: ‘She will be (finally) saved by fulfilling her domestic role (the bearing and nurture of children).’ ...

 

[Scarlett O.]

Marshall, I. Howard, and Philip H. Towner. 2004. A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles [link], International Critical Commentary. London; New York: T&T Clark International. pp. 468ff.

...the following interpretations of the clause have been proposed:
(a) Salvation by the birth of Jesus: ‘She will be saved by the bearing (of the Messiah by Mary).’ ...
(b) Salvation despite having to bear children: ‘She will be saved despite bearing children with pain.’ ...
(c) Physical safety during childbirth: ‘She will be brought safely through childbirth.’ ...
(d) Salvation by means of bearing children: ‘She will be saved by (the physical pain of) childbirth. ...
(e) Deliverance from the temptations of Satan by keeping to their proper role: ‘She will be delivered from Satan by [not transgressing into the role of teacher and] restricting herself to family responsibilities.’ ...
(f) Perseverance in (and towards final) salvation in the proper role of women: ‘She will be (finally) saved by fulfilling her domestic role (the bearing and nurture of children).’ ...

As one of those infamous "childless cat women" I don't have a clue what it means. Every time I read the Bible, that passage makes no sense to me and I have stopped trying to grasp the meaning long ago. I still read it when I read the Bible and get to it, but have had to stop beating my head against the wall over it and just read it and move on.

All I can say and I know this is an escape route for me, but I do know what it does NOT mean.

As far as the above multiple choice answers go, if it means D, E, or F, then I am going to hell. And I know that I am not.

C is not true as there have been countless godly women who have died in childbirth.

And B seems a little on the derogatory side implying that bearing children is negative thing and the Bible does not teach that.

I'll just leave you with the answer from me that I have no children and have no idea what this verse means. I can only say that I am a Christian and my life as a woman is just as meaningful and Lord-led as the next Christian woman - children or no children.