Are you a Calvinist?

[bapmom]

One of the tenancts of being a Baptist is soul liberty which GUARANTEES disagreement. If I find a group of Baptists who agree about everything I'm staying away from them!!! :thumbs:

so if I disagree with you on this point does that mean that we agree? :wavey:

This thread is truly dizzying! :laugh:

 

[bound]

I know my name's not Martin, but this may get us started. The first breakdown of Baptists was the General Baptists and the Particular Baptists in England. The General Baptists believed in general atonement, and the Particular Baptists believed in limited atonement. Not sure if that meant that the Generals were exactly Arminian or not. But they had "Arminian tendencies."

The General Baptists pretty much died out, and nearly all the Baptist groups in the U.S. today, and in England (even the Arminian baptists) are descended from the Particular Baptists. I hope I got that right.

Here is Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Baptists

How all that relates to Regular Baptists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_Baptists

This is also interesting as it relates to American baptists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_Baptists

If there is some dispute about anything in those articles, here's the chance to contribute to Wikipedia, too!

Grace and Peace Amily,

Wow, that link to General_Baptists links to NC Free-Will Baptists of which my Father and his Father were a part. I didn't realize the regional connection with North Carolina.

Thanks a bunch and God Bless.

 

[johnp.]

If it is adherence to all five points then wouldn't that mean that anyone who doesn't adhere to all five isn't a Calvinist?

In my opinion that is so.

If a person holds to only two or three of the five points can they really consider themselves a Calvinist?

It isn't what they consider but what I consider them to be.

The sticker in the TULIP scheme is usually thought to be the L of Limited Atonement.

1 Sam 3:14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever. (KJV)
1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' " (NIV)

L proved.

So, if a person denies this, would anyone, should anyone, consider them a Calvinist?

It is up to them. I don't.

The one which many claim to believe yet in practicality distort is total depravity . If folks get that one straight then the other four are no real problem . (Rippon)

Dead right.

If a person believes that it is they themselves that make the crucial decision, regardless of how they got to that point, then they are Pelagian. (Is that right Martin?) Cause if God stands everyone up to where they can then it's their will that saves.

The same is true for calvinists, is it not? All five points stand and fall together...

They do webdog.

I am fine with being labeled Arminian. Stone away!

Rightly named bound.

historically speaking the world "Reformed" includes theological beliefs that Baptists would deny such as infant baptism...

Calvin was wrong to conclude that baptism replaced circumcision but he was right in believing it right to baptist the children of the children of God. Baptists are wrong but I am more than willing to be in a Baptist Church that does not baptise children, I didn't, I don't see that this in itself causes baptists to be outside the reformation. A reformed Baptist is one that believes in the five points. My thoughts.

As long as I find calvinists who cannot agree about their own system, I am not subscribing.

Joining crowds isn't a clever thing to do, make up your own minds.

john.

 

[~JM~]

A reformed Baptist is one that believes in the five points.

Would you consider John MacArthur and John Piper Reformed Baptists? They don't see themselves that way and they're five pointers.


j

 

[johnp.]

Hello JM.

Would you consider John MacArthur and John Piper Reformed Baptists? They don't see themselves that way and they're five pointers.

I don't know them. I remember something about Piper that reminds me that I would not pay him much mind.

I don't distinquish between Baptist and others but between Calvinist and not Calvinist.

john.

 

[J.D.]

Would you consider John MacArthur and John Piper Reformed Baptists? They don't see themselves that way and they're five pointers.


j

Butting in - hope you don't mind - Piper is Reformed Baptist, MacArthur would be be more accurately described as an independent reformed fundamentalist. I would caution you not to form an opinion of Reformed Baptists based upon Piper. He is one of the most influencial teachers of today, but I think he actually represents a minority view on some things among the Reformed Baptists. I think he's SBC also, but not sure.

 

[J.D.]

Also, in regards to baptism, MacArthur practices believer's baptism. In fact, about the only difference between his church and a Baptist church is the form of government. His church follows something akin to a presbyterian form of government.

I'm interested if Piper does not consider himself reformed, or if he does not consider himself Baptist, what he does consider himself to be?

Some say that a Baptist can be a Calvinist, but not reformed - "reformed" taking the broader application of reformation theology. But it's probably not a valid differentiation.

 

[swaimj]

so if I disagree with you on this point does that mean that we agree?

--bapmom

Yes. So let's make sure that we disagree agreeably but never agree disagreeably. :thumbs:

Joining crowds isn't a clever thing to do, make up your own minds.

--johnp

Good advice. I have made up my minds which explains why I am of two minds...at least!. :1_grouphug:

 

[EdSutton]

I'm a four point Tinyist

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Grace and Peace,

I am fine with being labeled Arminian. Stone away! :tonofbricks:

Well, being as you asked so nicely - :tonofbricks:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

so if I disagree with you on this point does that mean that we agree? :wavey:

This thread is truly dizzying! :laugh:

Ed

 

[RichardJS]

If one is a 5 point Calvinist should they use the term "Reformed," such as "Reformed Baptist?" From an epistemlogical point of view the term "Reformed" could be used with "Baptist," but historically speaking the world "Reformed" includes theological beliefs that Baptists would deny such as infant baptism, [reformed] covenant theology, the The Three Forms of Unity, etc.

You thoughts?

Peace,

j

I would think that the term "Baptist" would limit what was meant by "Reformed" but I will stick with labeling myself as an S&P .

 

[~JM~]

...Piper is Reformed Baptist, MacArthur would be be more accurately described as an independent reformed fundamentalist.

According to their teachings and websites both admit to not fitting into the "Reformed" mold. Piper admits to agreeing with some of CT but agrees also with NCT on the Law, his covenant positions are not stated to the best of my knowledge and he's also premil. MacArthur doesn't use any theological label other then evangelical. Niether Piper or MacArthur endorse a Reformed Confession...

Let me re-state my question: Does having Calvinistic soteriology make one Reformed or just a Calvinist?

I don't think it does. Consider S. Lewis Johnson. He as a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist and NOT Reformed.

Peace,

j

 

[RichardJS]

Let me re-state my question: Does having Calvinistic soteriology make one Reformed or just a Calvinist?

I don't think it does. Consider S. Lewis Johnson. He as a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist and NOT Reformed.

Peace,

j

I would agree with you here bro

 

[EdSutton]

I would think that the term "Baptist" would limit what was meant by "Reformed" but I will stick with labeling myself as an S&P .

I know what an A & P is, as we had one in our hometown for many years, but what is an S & P?

I really do not know, and am unable to 'decipher' what you are meaning.

Ed

 

[Christlifter]

I don't sit on fences

I sat on a fence one time, and almost fell off. I only did that , as I was trying to cut through peoples backyards.

Anyway, I have found myself agreeing with and fluctuating (logically Captain)

between an Eternally Secure (OSAS) Lordship Arminian position (John R. Rice, Sam Jones, Oliver B. Greene, Harry Ironside, M.R. DeHaan)

ALL THE WAY TO

Sublapsarian, faith/regeneration @ the same time, 4 point Amyraldianist "Calvinists" position (Miles Stanford, L. Sperry-Chafer, J.N. Darby, and inconsistent 5 Pointers --Charles Spurgeon, Horatius Bonar, Sir Robert Anderson)

Did you know: In the PowerBible v.3.0 version, that Spurgeon states that his sermon that saw the most souls saved, was labeled Arminian?

In the long run...:jesus: :laugh: :thumbs: :sleeping_2:

 

[RichardJS]

I know what an A & P is, as we had one in our hometown for many years, but what is an S & P?

I really do not know, and am unable to 'decipher' what you are meaning.

Ed

Sorry, I meant Strict and Particular Baptist. Strict refers to a "closed communion" and Particular to the fact that they are Calvinist and agree with Particular atonement.

See also:

http://www.the-faith.org.uk/spb.html

 

[EdSutton]

Sorry, I meant Strict and Particular Baptist. Strict refers to a "closed communion" and Particular to the fact that they are Calvinist and agree with Particular atonement.

See also:

http://www.the-faith.org.uk/spb.html

Thanks for telling me what it means.

The only S & P designation I was familiar with, was the Standard & Poors, 500 "Stock Average", and I was pretty sure that was not what you were referring to, here.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I don't think it does. Consider S. Lewis Johnson. He as a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist and NOT Reformed.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Dr. S. Lewis Johnson is now completely 'reformed', but not necessarily in the sense you mean it. Dr. Johnson went to glory on Jan. 28, 2004.

Ed

 

[~JM~]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Dr. S. Lewis Johnson is now completely 'reformed', but not necessarily in the sense you mean it. Dr. Johnson went to glory on Jan. 28, 2004.

Ed

Ooops, I owe you a "w." I meant to post, "He [w]as a Dispensationalist and a Calvinist and NOT Reformed."

Good teacher he was, his mp3 on Covenants and Covenant theology can be found here.

:godisgood: