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Are you a donor?
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Anythng they can use, they can have. Actually I just think that this recipient is donating his body to keep my organs alive!
I'm a full donor. However, I would have a very difficult time agreeing to have any part of my children's bodies donated because of my understanding of the donation process. Perhaps if I learn more about it I will change my mind, but until then, I am still under the impression that they cannot use organs after a person has completely died. I haven't done enough research to state this as a fact though, so don't believe it without researching it yourself.
:laugh: Awesome way to look at it!
I don't know about the USA, but in Canada one must be legally dead before any organs can be taken. On heart donations, they will artificially keep blood flowing through the heart, but the person is legally dead.
I can't donate because of illnesses, but they have permission to use my body for research if they can beat the race to the crematorium........maybe the ashes could be studied.
Cheers,
Jim
I can't donate because of illnesses, but they have permission to use my body for research if they can beat the race to the crematorium........maybe the ashes could be studied.
Cheers,
Jim
I'm a donor. Anything anyone wants, they can have. I would like to be dead first, but after that, I don't care!
Marcia
Active Member
But the issue is what is meant by "legally dead?" It varies from place to place. That is the danger of this. Some people declared legally died come back to life.
Marcia
Active Member
You are right - they cannot use most organs if someone has died. I know this because I worked for the euthanasia lawyer in a right to life organization for 2 yrs. So you have to be kept alive while they remove the organs.
My problem is the definition of legally dead - it does not always mean dead, imo. I think if there is a chance that someone could still live, then it would be murder.
That's true. My cousin was brain dead, but very much alive when 14 of his organs were removed as donations. I'm fine with donating, but wonder if the definition of legally dead varies state to state or country to country ...
Marcia
Active Member
Yes, it does vary, and there is much dispute over it. This shows that they have no absolute standard. People have "come back" after being declared legally dead. This is my problem with donating organs that must be donated while technically still alive. I have to wonder if the Lord sees this as murder.
The term "legally dead" gnerally means the point at which a deceased person's deathis legally recognized. It is usually a higher standard than "clinically dead". For example, a brain dead person is clinically dead, but is not legally dead until they have been removed from life support and the heart has stopped.
Not exactly. This has only happenned in a very small handful of cases. In all instances, the person's heart has stopped, and there was a decision not to recussitate or to discontinue recussitation. At the time this decision is made, the medical professional notes the time, which is the legal time of death. Persons within "coming back" do so within moments of the blood flow stopping (the brain begins to die within about 3 minutes after a stopped heart). The organ donation process does not happen that quickly.
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Marcia
Active Member
I spent 2 yrs, working for a lawyer who was an expert on euthansia issues (and who has appeared before the U.S. Supreme Court, which you must be qualified to do). The definition of legally dead varies state by state. People's major organs must be removed while their heart is beating, even if it's with a machine.
But you are trusting the medical people to say that there should be no recussitation or to declare the person dead enough to remove organs, whichever term is used. Iow, the person is not really dead when the organs are removed; they are simply declared dead and it is believed they cannot live.
My former boss (the euthansia lawyer) told me not to be an organ donor in VA (the state where I live) because the laws here are such that you could be declared dead in order to give organs and possibly not really be dead. Iow, the laws here in VA (and many other states) are very lenient in declaring death here for the purposes of organ donation. My former boss is the expert and he knows what he is talking about.
I think you're missing my point of addressing the "coming back" issue. People being revived after being declared dead by a medical professional is so incredibly rare, it's immeasurable. Hence, to reject organ donation based on a possibility of "coming back" is generally considered unreasonable.
You're correct when you say legal death varies, but it all cases, it is a legal pronouncement by a qualified person that further medical care is not appropriate and that a patient should be considered dead under the law. A person is not declared legally dead until after the medical professional has ascertained the patient has reached the point of clinical death.
Being recussitated is not a legal entitlement, let alone a moral one.
You're correct when you say legal death varies, but it all cases, it is a legal pronouncement by a qualified person that further medical care is not appropriate and that a patient should be considered dead under the law. A person is not declared legally dead until after the medical professional has ascertained the patient has reached the point of clinical death.
Um, yeah!! Of course! The medical professional is the one who is stuck with the agonizing task of pounding away at my chest until he/she is totally exhausted. Allowing him/her make the call as to whether I'm gone or not is the least thing they should be entitled to do.
Being recussitated is not a legal entitlement, let alone a moral one.
Marcia
Active Member
That wasn't my point. My point is that it may be murder in God's eyes to take someone's organs while they are still alive.
You place way too much trust in the doctors. I am not anti-doctor, but in situations like this, you need to realize that sometimes they may think it's better for someone else to get the organs than to keep the possible donor alive. This is why my former boss told me not to be an organ donor.
Once again, you must not know much about what is going on in regards to the lessening value of life in the medical world. You didn't spend 2 yrs. reading material on this like I did - and this was back in the mid 90s! Things are worse now in regards to the value of human life. I think my former boss and others who are specialists in this field know more than you do, and they do not have the trust you have simply because euthanasia has made great gains in the past 15 yrs.
Again, it is not that clear when one can be declared to have no more chances. It's often a very gray area.
I think most people would agree with the following two scenarios:
1 - If a person's heart has stopped and no recussitation is warranted, removing one's organs for donation is permissible. 2 - If a person is brain dead, then removing one's organs for donation is permissible.
That's rather far-fetched. When someone gets wheeled into the ER, and the ER physician is pounding away at their chest over and over and over to get a response, the LAST thing he's thinking is "I wonder how many organs I can get out of this person".
Marcia
Active Member
1. Just because most people agree to this, does not mean it's okay.
2. "Brain dead" is a gray area - just research it and see. It's not always clear what this means and it's not always clear that it's possible to say there is no brain activity.
They are thinking that someone else who needs an organ may deserve it more. Sorry, but the medical community is not always wanting to save your life if you are old, have lots of health problems, etc. I have seen this myself and I know of some cases where people suspect relatives were euthanized. The value of all life today is not what it should be.
Moreover, I think my former boss and others know ten times more about this than you do, so I'm going with them. You are going just by what you think the situation is or should be; others know specific circumstances and are more aware of the gray areas through research, knowledge of the legal issues, and knowledge of the medical issues.
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I have no problem with donating after death; God created my organs in the first place and He'll therefore have no difficulty in creating fresh ones at the Resurrection (don't we all get new bodies anyway?), otherwise that's bad news for those whose bodies have rotted away completely over the centuries. Plus I give blood - anyone do that?
BigBossman
Active Member
I don't want my body to be without all the major organs in the rare event God decides to send me back. I wouldn't be much use to Him without my eyes, liver, heart & other organs.