Ehud said:
This is not true. there is plenty of Church History out there if one wants to read Although not a succession in name but defiantly a succession in doctrine.
If there is plenty of Church History out there, you must be ready to post the record. I will await.
We have now seen that the Baptists,who were formerly called Anabaptists,
This is not all together true. Some wish to link themselves to the Anabaptist, (why i do't know), but I think if you study history for the most part Baptist came from the Puritan-Separatist movement in the Church of England. I do agree that many AnaBaptist found their way to the real Baptist churches. Anabaptist were in a class of their own called the Radical Reformers. They believed that no believer had the right to own a sword. Own one? That's right....just owning it was wrong. Pacifism is what they called it. Any thing having to do with war or violence. A believer was not allowed play a part in the government. The reformers from Luther tand even Zwingli accepted that the church and the state must live side by side. Anabaptist would threaten the social order much like the JW today would refuse to defend their nation.
That changed in the next set of Anabaptist....but that's a long story.
Speaking of Anabaptist you go on to post....and in later times Mennonites,
This is true. Also to show the full impact of the Anabaptist, one can also trace the Pentecotal and holiness movement to them.
were the original Waldenses,
Not so.
The Waldenses is an interesting group. Everyone wants to claim they came from the Waldenses. I can understand why, because they showed great backbone.
Here are a few things you must know about the Waldenses. Peter Waldo did not seek to alter Catholic teachings in the beginning. In 1180 Waldo signed a statement of faith that was pure traditional Catholicism. They never till years after Waldos death wish to make another church. Waldo hoped to gain the popes approval for his movement and went to him 3 or four times asking for such.
They found a holiness in being poor. Its not that they just rejected the rich ways of the church as you read in many books, they went on to teach that the more you reject "things" the better you are. This was nothing but another form of works salvation.
Waldensians in the begining held to doctrines like transubstantiation, and praying to the dead dead, as well as infant baptism. Now this later changed as you know.
I do not post these things to BASH Waldensians. I point them out to show there are many holes even in the groups many would claim as SURE Baptist. Even if these teachings lasted only 100 years, that is 100 years that cannot be counted for in the Landmark idea.
But some will take it so far as to say that Waldensians were before its founder. They do this because if they don't have the Waldensians before this time, there is about 500 year gap of no proof. So they make it up...with no support.
If you want to know when the Waldensians started...go look on their own web site. They would know better than us.
http://www.waldensian.org/aws03.php
Founded in the Middle Ages
The Waldensian Church originated with the preaching of the merchant Valdo (Waldo of Lyons, from whom the church’s name originates), 1140 - 1217. He lived during the same period as Saint Francis of Assisi (1181 or 1182 – 1226). Like Francis, Waldo also believed in the value of the evangelical poverty of the early church and, after a profound spiritual crisis, gave all his assets to the poor in order to freely preach the gospel.
The movement, known as “The Poor of Lyons” in France and “The Poor Lombards” in Italy, continued to spread throughout Europe. But in a short time it was accused of heresy and thereafter participants were repressed and persecuted by the civil and religious authorities. Despite very difficult times and the violence of the Inquisition of the Catholic Church, the movement continued to evangelize and succeeded in establishing an important community in the western Alps of the Piedmont, the South of France, Germany, and even in southern Italy (in Calabria). Their itinerant preachers were called “Barba” (a dialectical word for “uncle”, meaning a distinguished person), from which derived “Barbetti” (followers of the Barba), a popular name used until recent times in Piedmont to indicate Waldensians.
Another site....
http://www.waldensianpresbyterian.org/
Later on as you may know..in Baptisim Immersion mode was used. “Contra Waldenses,” brings up the Synod of Exeter, A.D. 1277, which gives directions for the baptism of children and there you will find support for immersion.
and who have long in history received the honor of the origin.
See my note above.
On this account the Baptists may be considered as the only Christian community that has stood since the days of the Apostles, and as a Christian society which has preserved pure the doctrines of the gospel through all the ages.[/I]—History of the Dutch Reformed Church, Vol I, p. 148.
There are a ton of statements like this one.....but no support
: John Ridpath, a Methodist, had this to say of Baptists:
“I should not readily admit that was a Baptist church as far back as A.D. 100, although without doubt there were Baptists then as all Christians were
then Baptists.” —
Jarrel's Church Perpetuity, p. 59. We are thankful for the heritage passed down to us by our Baptist forefathers. Many of them gave their lives during the Dark Ages because they refused to baptize their child or because they loved God’s Word too much to compromise.
There is to much here to handle in one post. I'll put it short.
The 1st quote you will find all over the web. Do me a favor and tell me the context of this quote. In the context you will find the answer.
2nd....Both of these quotes say nothing about proving it. Just more people saying it is true.
One thing man never learns from history is that man never learns from history.:tonofbricks:
indeed. And we also see that people that don't study history will ALWAYS make the same mistakes. It has a lot to do with sin nature
