Are you a victem of easy belevism?

I'd also tack on that salvation has nothing to do with "getting right, later", "getting right, earlier", "getting right, now", or "getting right", at any other time. Salvation is by grace through faith, as Ephesains 2:8-10 tells us, with the result that we are "MADE right", - hence created in Christ Jesus for the purpose of good works, which God has designed that we should walk in them. Let's not get the cart trying to pull the horse, here. It simply "don't work so good!"

Ed

 

Generally, well said.

Specifically, "BINGO!"

And I'll add that those who insist on mixing and confusing the free gift of salvation, and the costly discipleship are Public Enemy #1 as lazy purveyors of doubt among Christians.

Ed

 

Let me add that the "By their fruits you shall know them" statement Jesus made had nothing to do, in context, with 'salvation', but rather was an identifying mark of 'false prophets'.

Ed

 

Read on in this chapter.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

It's amazing that people will quote Eph. 2:8-9 and then miss out on verse 10 where it says that we're going to walk in good works, and Romans 8:1 says those who are saved walk after the Spirit, and 2 Cor. 5:17 says we'll be a new creature, and 2 Pet. 1:4 mentions us being partakers of a divine nature, and in Hebrews it says without holiness NO MAN will see the Lord, etc.

God's grace is so amazing that it changes the sinner! Hold on to some profession that made no change all you won't, but many a people will be in hell thinking they were fine because "when I was 7 years old I raised my hand and signed a card." :tear:

 

Spoudazo I would encourage you to go back and look at Ephesians 10. It does not guarantee that we "will" walk in the good works. It says we "should" walk in the works. That's a totally different picture. It's a subjunctive verb which means it may or may not happen.

We may or may not walk in the good works. Good works are not a guarantee.

Romans 8:1 says: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is nothing in this verse that guarantees a saved person is always going to continue walking in the spirit. This verse is talking about those that are currently walking after the Spirit, but not all Christians are currently walking after the Spirit. Unfortunately there are many that walk after the flesh

I think the "new" creature or "new" creation often gets misused. We are a new creation in Christ in that we are neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, etc. We are made alive spiritually, but our old nature and our old desires are not destroyed. They are still hanging around and unless we die to self they will rule our lives.

They will be if they didn't believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on their behalf a sinner. But if they did believe that then they are saved regardless of how much anyone dislikes the idea.

 

I do think there is this problem not only with children, but with others. There is another problem that I have seen latley. It seems that people want to "legalize" what is a true conversion. For instance, if someone does not remember the time or place but they have fruit many feel that they need to do it the "right" way. If someone gets saved in there bedroom and later goes to church and hears that you must be saved. That person might think to themselves they are not saved because they did not do it at church.
I truley believe if a child is lead through the prayer and they mean it at the time, they are saved. Many grow older and they realize what salvation is, they realize and are more educated about what it is and feel that they needed understand it before they did it. This causes them to feel they were not saved. My preachers son was "saved" a couple of months ago and his wife. They are both married. I have heard many preachers preach to the point where it would make anyone doubt thier salvation. I think you really have to look at the situation. The thing is with children or adults, the person does not needs to completley understand what salvation is before they get saved. I was saved in my bedroom but had no dicipleship. 3 years later I realized what happened to me at a church and was baptized. I did not know or realize what salvation and living in God's will was but I did have a longing for church, a longing to get to know God etc. I just didn't know how to do it.
I think there is just as much legalism with salvation as there is false conversions. This legalism is not nessacarly preached on but I believe it goes on in the believers mind.

 

Mr

Basically I agree with you. Our diffenences boil down to the difference between "easy believerism" and "phoney believerism." I don't see any difference. Both result in a shallow pseudo-christianity which claims that the Christian life doesn't require a total committment of one's life.

 

I love this comment Soul Winnning Lady made;

"My preachers son was "saved" a couple of months ago and his wife. They are both married. ":thumbs:

My question is...
Are they married to each other?
The son and his wife I mean?

I think the problem is in the semantics we use in descrbing what is going on in our churches today.

Easy-believism is the wrong phrase I would use. False teaching is more accurate. The fault doesn't lie with the 'professed' christian so much as it does with the false teacher who spouts 1-2-3-repeat-after-me-now-yer-saved-bless-God-now git-ta-church-an-read-yer-Bible-an-don't-fergit-ta-pray-everyday.

The Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand. Therefore, what is wrong with leading a child to repentance and faith towards Jesus? Nothin at all. "Suffer the little children..."

But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. (Sorry 'bout the pun)

 

I can understand believing the wrong thing, or not really understanding what it is that you are supposed to believe. But how in the world does one "falsly believe" and how can you ever know if you did?

Lacy

 

Good point, Lacy. :thumbs: Scripture never use the phrase "falsely believe", and neither does it ever use the phrase "truly believe".

Ed

 

The thing is that there are not degrees of "believe". The sky is blue. It is a fact. you can choose to believe it or not. The gospel message is a fact and, again, you can choose to believe it or not. When you believe you are born again.

You can no more "falsly believe" the gospel than you can "falsly believe" the sky is blue.

You want fruit? You want holiness? The Bible is chock full of warnings and promises for BELIEVERS to motivate them to salvation, but woe unto the man who confounds the issue by making a simple concept like "believe" into a cloudy muddled up mongrel that depends on our fruit and/or our holiness.

lacy

 

We can preach or teach a person and with adequate teaching, the person will realize they have never been saved, be afraid of going to hell, and then be compelled to say a prayer, even in tears.

There was recently a lady at our church who several times came down the isle crying and wanting to be saved. Pastor would show her verses and let her pray from her heart. This she did several times. However, in July at Camp Zion she really was saved, and didn't just make a profession.

When she returned I asked her if the Lord had shown her why she wasn't saved any of those times she had made professoins (at least 5 or so) and she said she was trying on her own. With this case and many others in our churches, we as a church have seen of the necessity of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of a sinner. No one can believe and trust Christ without the Holy Spirit, therefore, we must rely on the Lord to bring people to Christ.

Dr. Percy Ray used to say don't pluck them too early, or they'll go rotten. If you wait long enough, they'll fall off the tree when they're ready.

 

AMEN!!!!!!

 

But the Bible doesn't teach us to Walk down the isle, cry, pray from the "heart", ask Jesus into our "heart", or to make a profession.

If your problem is "Easy Professionism" or "Easy-walk-down-the-isle-ism" or "Easy-Ask-Jesus-into-Your-Heart-ism", then I agree wholeheartedly.

But to confound the term "believe" with "easy", "False", etc is to break the back of salvation.

Salvation is based solely upon What Christ did. What else can we do but believe? What else does the Bible say to do but "believe"? "Believe" is not an abstract term. You don't have to Really really really really believe. This mentality is anathema because it completely cuts the legs out from under the gospel and turns faith into doubt. Are we saved by doubt?

Lacy

 

Spoudazo,

I'm sorry. This was in no way directed at you personally. I just re-read it and it looks that way. I apologize.

lacy

 

Hey Lacy!

How are you doing?

Wayne

 

No problem.

My point is, is that a sinner cannot even get to Christ to believe on Him without the Holy Spirit. In the Gospels, a persons belief was shown in them coming to Christ, not an amount of feeling.

Having enough belief or faith to trust in Christ is simply coming to Christ when drawn.

In the Gospels, no person could be "saved" if Christ did not pass by. Indeed now, no man can be saved without the Holy Spirit bringing him to Christ, and of course, Jesus Christ is the one that does the saving (Matt. 18:11; Luke 19:10; 1 Tim. 1:15). A person can sit in church under conviction by the Spirit of God and reject Christ. The next day, if the person wants to get saved, he can't get saved until the Spirit once again pricks his heart with conviction.

Hope this clarifies.

As for the example from my church, I realize that walking an isle has nothing to do with salvation, but one must call on the Lord for salvation while He is near which is usually during some form of church service, hence why we see the majority of true conversions happening at church services, revival meetings, etc.

 

Doing great. I'm now the worship leader at First Baptist in Nolanville (near Killeen) how far is that from you?

Lacy

 

True but it comes close, the Scripture speaks of "false prophets", "false teachers", Paul talks about "false brethren".

HankD