Are you a victem of easy belevism?

The Bible isn't equating false teachers, false prophets and false bretheren with unsaved folks. A person can be saved and a false teacher. There are a number of them running around here in American alone.

 

If the Spirit of God isn't in it, no person will get saved, no matter "how much" belief is involved.

The Spirit brings the sinner to Jesus, Jesus does the saving, and then He gives peace and the sinner has a guiltless conscience before God,

 

But it's possible...

2 Corinthians 11:
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

There are also the tares in Matthew 13 sown among the chilldren of God.

Mathhew 13
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

HankD​

 

Just look here at the BB. Although I don't doubt the spiritual salvation of anyone here at the board, and I feel fellowship with many, there are opposing teachings, and if they are opposed, one or both must be false.

Yet, the individuals, I have no doubts, are saved, and for the most part, have the best intentions.

 

I think it's a question of where we differ. Teachers who put forward a different gospel, on in which there are alternatives to accepting Christ for salvation for instance, are not saved and will pay the price at the Judgement. Differences in open vs. closed communion or acceptinf only the KJV are not significant.

 

I was raised in a Church, baptized at a young age, never missed a Sunday school class. At the age of 14 my step father was killed by a drunk driver. Well, I went off the deep end as time went on. I became very rebellious and had no worries. I was introduced into Satanism at the age of 17. I was in the occult for 3yrs, and in that three years I did many things I'm not proud of or care to mention to even you folks whom I don't know. But a lot of drugs, women, and hatred went along with this dark tale. In 91' I went to a Church with my Slayer "Hell Awaits" T-shirt on and with a beer in hand (a long story), the preacher (Dwight Thompson from TBN) took one look at me and came laid his hands on me. From that night I have not touched cigarettes, or drugs. I got out of the occult by moving away and making new Christian friends. I was later saved by the pastor of that Church and was baptized. I went through 2yrs of Bible college and was a youth minister from 93' thru 97' then I moved again and have not been back into it. I just started going to FBCWA (First Baptist Church of West Albuquerque) like 5 weeks ago already I went to the pastor and told him of my past, he was amazed and wants me to continue with the Church for at least six months before I can do anything of ministry with the youth. I ask that you all pray for me.. God has changed my life. I'm a full time medical student, I have a beautiful 5yr little girl. If it was not for the Lord, I truly believe I would have been buried before the age of 21, with just all the drugs I done alone..

 

Where does he say he was saved before he was in satanism.?... I don't see it.

 

When the Lord saves someone, they are new creatures.

No person will return to their old life and life of sin. It is impossible. Were it possible, then Ephesians 2:10 and the rest of the Bible would be proven false.

Who is right, the Bible or someone's testimony?

 

Spoudazo I'm sorry but Ephesians 2:10 doesn't even come close to proving your point, but is quite the opposite. Ephesians 2:10 doesn't say that works are a guarantee. The verb used is a subjunctive verb which means these works may or may not be walked in.

Unfortunatley it is possible that a person can return to a life of sin and often does because of a number of factors today.

 

You are wrong, the "hin en autois peripataysomen" (that we should walk in them) is explaining what happens, what God has ordained and makes come to pass, not "maybe this will happen."

Why do people return to their old lives? Well, the Bible is quite clear, no matter what you say about it.

(1 John 2:19)

(Matt. 13:20-21)

(Matt. 15:13)

(Heb. 10:39)

(also here is a little from A.T. Robertson)

or John Gill,

also,

(Titus 2:14)

 

Spoudazo there really is not need to address your other points until you can see what Ephesians 2:10 does and does not say.

Ther are four verbs in verse 10. The first one is esmen translated "we are" present, indicitive meaning that the ones Paul was addressing currently are without a doubt...

The second one is ktizo translated "created". It is an Aorist, Passive, Participle. This speaks of an event that happened to the ones Paul is addressing.

The third is proetoimazo translated "hath before ordained". This is an Aorist, Active, Indicitive verb which means that the subject (God) is the doer of the action, which is ordaining and it is aorist so it happened at one singular point and it did happen no doubt about it.

The final verb is the one in question here which is peripateo translated "we should walk". It is an Aorist, Active, Subjunctive verb.
That means we are the ones that should walk in these ordained works, but because
it is a subjunctive verb we may or may not walk in these works.

"The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and
potentiality. The action described may or may not occur,
depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the
third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as
well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses,
such as those beginning with "hina."

The bottom line as much as anyone wants works to be a guarantee by a believer the
Bible just doesn't support the idea or teaching. There are a great deal of other
verses we could look at, but it is important to have an understanding of where we
started before we move off into other Scripture.

 

I have been studying Koine Greek since I was a junior in highschool so I'm not just parroting someone else.

The point of Eph. 2:10 is is that 8-9 we are saved by grace, and that grace is so amazing that it makes you a new creature, gives you a new heart, and you are a new person, nevermore to return to the old lifestyle. Only those who have "no root in themselves" return to their old lifestyles.

 

You can study for a lifetime, but just because you study doesn't mean you have it right.

The simple fact of the matter is this is a subjunctive verb, which is in contrast to the indicitive. If works are a guarantee as you say then why didn't the Spirit just direct Paul to use an indicitive?

A subjunctive verb is a subjunctive verb. It doesn't have anything to do with me, it's just letting the Bible say what the Bible says.

 

Be honest with the verse and you'll see that it is saying we are God's workmanship, and seeing such, it is only proper that we should and will walk in good works.

(Rom. 8:29)

I'm guessing you don't think Romans 8:29 has any bearing on this passage? God does the saving, and when He does the saving, that person will never be the same.

 

Spoudazo I am the one being honest with the verse and yes I agree with you that is says we are God's workman ship and we are, because that is indicitive. That is 100% for sure. And it is proper that we SHOULD walk in the good works. That's what Scripture says we SHOULD walk in them. But it is you that adds "and will walk in good works." That is just plainly not what the verse says. The verse plainly says we SHOULD walk in them.

Should is not an absolute. Should means it may or may not happen, but it supposed to happen, but it may not happen. That is the reality of that verse. We can either accept what God has said and change our views to match or we can beleive outside of Scripture.

God said should and I believe He knew exactly what He was saying.

The Bible is simply amazing, becuase it doesn't leave any room for misinterpretation. There is only way one to interpret a passage that is consistent with the rest of Scripture, and a guarantee of works by a saved individual is not consistent with other Scripture, therefore it is an incorrect interpretation, becuase it places contradictions on Scripture in other areas, which can not be present.

 

Of course it is proper. The question is "Is it inevitable?

My question is a matter of practicality. In my Christian walk, is it possible for me to sin? If "predestined" means I'll automatically bear fruit, then how could I ever even be tempted. What power of temptation could Satan possibly wield over a man predestined (in an absolute sense) to good works?

Throughout history Christians have committed every gross sin imaginable. Some repented, some died in their sin. The Bible is full of warnings and promises to motivate us to holiness. Questioning salvation never motivated anyone.

In order to walk holy, a man must know his works are sanctified (Water and blood) by Christ's blood. If a man's salvation is in doubt or contingent upon some unspecified degree and amount of good works, then there can be no assurance, especially for a humble man.

lacy

 

Being tempted isn't a sin, as Christ was tempted. Everyone sins, but does that make it OK?

The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, and if someone fits that category, no matter how many times they think they have "trusted Christ," it will all be in vain.

 

Spoudazo here is some source of the confusion. You are equating inheriting the kingdom of God with etneral salvation. Those are two separate contexts. The gospel of the grace of Jesus is not the same thing as the gospel of the kingdom of heaven (Matthew refers to this as the kingdom of heaven, although it should literally be translated the kingodm of the heavens, and there is manuscript evidence that this is the phrase used in John 3 as well) or kingdom of God.

The gospel of the kingdom is a gospel that can only be preached to those that are already saved. For one can not even understand the message until they are alive spiritually.

Good works have to do with whether or not one will inherit the kingdom or not. And not all Christians will inheit the kingdom unforutnately.

 

Of course it's not OK but it doesn't prove you aren't saved or else everyone except the one you mentioned would be bound for the lake of fire if the sinned willfully one time.

Amen! Shall not inherit the KOG. It says nothing about being saved. And I agree that if a Christian is trusting in his initial salvation to get him into Christ's coming Millennial Kingdom, then he might be very surprized when "rewards" are handed out.

-Lacy