James_Newman
New Member
What does it mean to be called but not chosen?
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Are you among the few or many?
- Thread starter mman
- Start date
I agree that the Bible teaches that there are many that come to a saving faith in Jesus by God's grace, but there are few that come into an understanding of the meat and strong meat of the Scripture, which is the gospel of the glory of Christ.
There is the gospel (good news) to the dead man and then there is the gospel (good news) to the spiritually alive man.
Dead man receives good news in that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. Once that man is made alive spiritually through the Holy Spirit then there is good news that he can reign with Christ in His coming kingdom.
This offer is open to all spiritually alive individuals, but it can be rejected and it can be lost once it is obtained. That is why there are so many folks that say people can lose their eternal salvation, because they are reading Scripture that talks about rejecting or losing the opportunity to take part in the coming kindgom, which is also referred to as the salvation of the soul. And that's why it gets twisted sometimes, because the term salvation is in there and people automatically assume when it says salvation it is speaking about eternal salvation, but we must remember that there is a temporal salvation as well.
We can save our life (soul) and lose it in the coming kingdom or we can lose our life (soul) now and receive life in the coming kingdom.
There is the gospel (good news) to the dead man and then there is the gospel (good news) to the spiritually alive man.
Dead man receives good news in that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. Once that man is made alive spiritually through the Holy Spirit then there is good news that he can reign with Christ in His coming kingdom.
This offer is open to all spiritually alive individuals, but it can be rejected and it can be lost once it is obtained. That is why there are so many folks that say people can lose their eternal salvation, because they are reading Scripture that talks about rejecting or losing the opportunity to take part in the coming kindgom, which is also referred to as the salvation of the soul. And that's why it gets twisted sometimes, because the term salvation is in there and people automatically assume when it says salvation it is speaking about eternal salvation, but we must remember that there is a temporal salvation as well.
We can save our life (soul) and lose it in the coming kingdom or we can lose our life (soul) now and receive life in the coming kingdom.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Do I dare?
Not sure I want to make a Doctrine out of one Scripture...
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Might be an answer in:
The fact that the invitation to become Children of God is issued to whosoever will...
And, that everyone won't choose to accept that invitation...
And, failure to accept would result in not being Chosen of God...
I know it's simplistic...
Mike Sr.
Not sure I want to make a Doctrine out of one Scripture...
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Might be an answer in:
The fact that the invitation to become Children of God is issued to whosoever will...
And, that everyone won't choose to accept that invitation...
And, failure to accept would result in not being Chosen of God...
I know it's simplistic...
Mike Sr.
James_Newman
New Member
1 Corinthians 1:26
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
I take that as a compliment. By your statements, I am "blessed" and I "rejoice".
As a matter of fact, I have knocked on doors. Have you never knocked on a door to tell someone about Jesus?
I have used the phone to call others, and now, I am using the internet to knock on your door.
You can slam the door in my face, ridicule me because you don't like the message, harass mem, or ignore me.
I do not frequent this website because it helps to pass the time. No, I have an important message.
Did the people in Matt 7:21 think they were go to go? Yes. They were sincere, even to the point that they were agrueing with Jesus. These people had called Jesus Lord and worked for Him.
Who are these people? I just want to make sure that neither you nor I am one of those "many" that Jesus is refering to.
If I didn't care about people's souls, I would not be on this website.
Thank you, Jim.
Charles Meadows
New Member
Mman,
There will be many for sure.
But what would you suggest WE do other than witness to others?
You cannot turn the New Testament into a second Torah, mandating that believers:
1. be baptized "in the name of Jesus".
2. join the "Church of Christ".
Salvation requires that we give our souls to Jesus. That's it. If one must do the above 2 things in order to be saved then Paul was wrong when he said salvation was not by works. Neither the words "in the name of Jesus" nor name "Church of Christ" on your church are prerequisites for being a child of God.
There will be many for sure.
But what would you suggest WE do other than witness to others?
You cannot turn the New Testament into a second Torah, mandating that believers:
1. be baptized "in the name of Jesus".
2. join the "Church of Christ".
Salvation requires that we give our souls to Jesus. That's it. If one must do the above 2 things in order to be saved then Paul was wrong when he said salvation was not by works. Neither the words "in the name of Jesus" nor name "Church of Christ" on your church are prerequisites for being a child of God.
tamborine lady
Active Member
My answer to the original OP is this. I am one of the few.
Many are called. The Holy Spirit calls people everyday, but there are many of them that refuse the call. They refuse salvation. When they do accept Jesus, they are automatically "chosen"!!
There are few that say yes to Jesus and take up their cross and follow him.
I don't think the "many" are Christians. If Jesus said "depart from me, I never knew you", then they never knew Him. They were not saved.
And those will not only say that they cast out devils in His name. They will be those that have chosen false doctrines. They have been playing church not following Jesus.
He said "My sheep know my voice". If they knew His voice, they would not be out doing their own thing.
Working for Jesus,
Tam
I agree, they are not christians, but they are sincere followers of Jesus following false doctrines.Originally posted by tamborine lady:
My answer to the original OP is this. I am one of the few.
Many are called. The Holy Spirit calls people everyday, but there are many of them that refuse the call. They refuse salvation. When they do accept Jesus, they are automatically "chosen"!!
There are few that say yes to Jesus and take up their cross and follow him.
I don't think the "many" are Christians. If Jesus said "depart from me, I never knew you", then they never knew Him. They were not saved.
And those will not only say that they cast out devils in His name. They will be those that have chosen false doctrines. They have been playing church not following Jesus.
He said "My sheep know my voice". If they knew His voice, they would not be out doing their own thing.
Working for Jesus,
Tam
I believe everyone on this website is either, sincere or an idiot.
If those in Matt 7 were asked during their lifetime if they were among the many or few, I am convinced they would have also answered "the few".
I did not start this thread to start a debate, but to let each of us reflect on, "Who are these many sincere followers of Jesus"?
Folks if they were casting out devils there is no way in the world they could be a lost person. Read Matthew 12. Jesus says basically that evil can not drive out evil.
Those folks were saved individuals. It's unfortunate that the church has lost its way when it comes to the Gospels and the first few chapters of Acts.
The message to the Jews in those days was a message that could only be entertained by saved individuals. The message that was being delievered was not salvation by grace, but it was redemption and forgiveness of sin so that the kingdom could be established. Those are two different things, but the church today and for a long long time now has tried to combine the two.
That's why we get so much confusion. I'll stop here, because I have probably gone further than I should have given the original question. So we'll save it for a different post
Those folks were saved individuals. It's unfortunate that the church has lost its way when it comes to the Gospels and the first few chapters of Acts.
The message to the Jews in those days was a message that could only be entertained by saved individuals. The message that was being delievered was not salvation by grace, but it was redemption and forgiveness of sin so that the kingdom could be established. Those are two different things, but the church today and for a long long time now has tried to combine the two.
That's why we get so much confusion. I'll stop here, because I have probably gone further than I should have given the original question. So we'll save it for a different post
No where in scripture is anyone told how to "join" a church. The Lord adds to the church.
Paul was correct. Salvation is not of works. There is nothing man can do to earn salvation, not even one iota of it.
I have never argued that one has to earn salvation, or any part of it. If we earned anything, it would not be by grace. No, we are saved by grace, through faith.
The souce of faith is God's word (Rom 10:17). You see Mark 16:16 and Eph 2:8-9 as in conflict with each other, so you accept Eph and reject Mark 16:16. These two passages are in complete and perfect harmony. One does not negate the other. One does not abolish the other. One does not have to be explained away. Gal 3:26-27 shows how they are in complete harmony, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Simple.
Now what did Jesus really mean when he said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?
a) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?
b) He that believeth and is saved shall be baptized?
c) He that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved?
d) He that believeth shall be saved?
I have seen all 4 answers given. I think Jesus meant just what he said, which in no way contradicts Eph 2:8-9.
Yes, there is more on this subject and we would be foolish to ignore it, so we should read and study and see all that God has said about this subject, rather than hold to one verse at the exclusion of all others.
tamborine lady
Active Member
J.Jump said:Folks if they were casting out devils there is no way in the world they could be a lost person. Read Matthew 12. Jesus says basically that evil can not drive out evil.
Tam says:
Not always true. They may "think" they have cast out demons. But the devil will "cooperate" with you sometimes. Especially if he knows you don't know what you are doing.
Sometimes you might have a "7 sons of Sceva" experience, but most of the time, he will just hide until the person gets away from you.
If however, you are truly operating with the authority of Jesus, they must obey!
I have seen people doing a big bluster and taking authority over the demons and commanding them to come out, and I can see that nothing has happened. The Holy Spirit witnesses that nothing has happened, yet the person doing the casting out, rises in BOLD VICTORY and declares it is done!!
The key is to study the Bible to show yourself approved. Not by man, but by God.
Selah,
Tam
THIS IS SO SIMPLE A CHILD COULD UNDERSTAND IT, problem is Jesus said to become like little children but too many want to pretend to be bible scholars in order to weasel their way round having to actually obey what God says.
well all you have to do is read just what it says, Jesus said depart from Me, I NEVER KNEW YOU
ye that work INIQUITY
What does INIQUITY mean? INIQUITY means SIN, breaking the law.
depart from Me I NEVER KNEW YOU
1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
The Bible says Gos takes vengeance on THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL...
2Thes:1:7-9: “…when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power”
OBEY the gospel?
Revelation 14 6-10 says the EVERLASTING GOSPEL message to the world is that there will be those who have the mark of the beast in contrast with the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. The TRUE FAITH that Jesus posessed led him to keep God's commandments.
how does THE BIBLE say we can tell if we KNOW GOD?
1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
'Whosoever abideth in him,' says John, 'sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.'"
1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
"Lord," they plead, "we have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets" "Have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
But Christ says, "I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me." "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven".
HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FAITHER... not he who merely makes a profession of Christianity...
But Lord Im in the church choir, but Lord I cast out devils, but Lord I pay my tithe, but Lord I believe in you...
Jn:17:3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[ April 05, 2006, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
well all you have to do is read just what it says, Jesus said depart from Me, I NEVER KNEW YOU
ye that work INIQUITY
What does INIQUITY mean? INIQUITY means SIN, breaking the law.
depart from Me I NEVER KNEW YOU
1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
The Bible says Gos takes vengeance on THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, WHO DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL...
2Thes:1:7-9: “…when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power”
OBEY the gospel?
Revelation 14 6-10 says the EVERLASTING GOSPEL message to the world is that there will be those who have the mark of the beast in contrast with the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. The TRUE FAITH that Jesus posessed led him to keep God's commandments.
how does THE BIBLE say we can tell if we KNOW GOD?
1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
'Whosoever abideth in him,' says John, 'sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.'"
1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
"Lord," they plead, "we have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets" "Have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
But Christ says, "I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me." "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven".
HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FAITHER... not he who merely makes a profession of Christianity...
But Lord Im in the church choir, but Lord I cast out devils, but Lord I pay my tithe, but Lord I believe in you...
Jn:17:3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[ April 05, 2006, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
Hope of Glory
New Member
We have been studying lawlessness for several weeks at church. Lawlessness is doing what is right in your own eyes. When the Bible is talking about those who are lawless (iniquity), it is talking about saved people who don't care what's right and what's wrong in God's eyes. You see it all through the church!
What is the first occurrence in the NT of lawlessness? [Matthew 7:21; “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”] There is something interesting about the word “lawlessness”. The first occurrence of the word “lawlessness” is in Matthew chapter 7. What is significant here is that Matthew 7 is part of the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount begins in Matthew chapter 5 and ends in Matthew chapter 7. What does the Lord deal with in this message? He deals with that which he loves and he deals with that which he hates. He deals with the righteousness which is of faith and He deals with the lawlessness of many.
These were workers of signs. [Matthew 7:22; “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils [demons]? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”]
They have done these wonderful things, but they are lawless! [Matthew 7:23; “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness].”] Here, in verse 21, we have a reference to entering into the Kingdom of the Heavens. “Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you will not enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens. Then, verse 22 deals with the workers of signs; the signs of prophesying, the casting out of demons, and miracles. These are signs that were worked in the day when Jesus was preaching and in the days just after that and in particular during the period of the book of Acts.
Signs, wonders, and miracles were being performed during the book of Acts. The reason that they were given signs, wonders, and miracles was to authenticate the man of God. Not everybody had a Bible. The only real Bible was the Old Testament in Hebrew and in Greek. The Bible was not completed until around 90 AD. The word of God was not complete and you could not check out a man based upon what he was saying, because you did not have a Bible to use to check him out. They were given signs, wonders, and miracles, but the were only for a time. There are going to be those who do these signs, wonders, and miracles, and they will be judged lawless.
The Lord says, “I never knew you”. I assure you that our God is not dumb. Our God knows everything; he is omniscient. What he is saying is that I do not recognize you because of your lawless behavior. He tells these that work these signs to depart. He is not sending them to the lake of fire. These people are not lost. Satan knows that a house divided will not stand. I assure you that Satan is not casting out Satan. Satan is not dividing his house. These people are saved people, and they are doing something that God does not want them to do, and God allows it to happen. Why does he allow that to happen? God allows it to happen to allow us to make choices in our own life as to whether we are going to be obedient or not. What choice do I want to make? I want to pursue the righteousness which of faith and the sign gifts do not promote faith. The sign gifts promote feelings, experiences, and seeing, and these are not of faith; they are of the flesh.
It is about obedience. It's works.
What is the first occurrence in the NT of lawlessness? [Matthew 7:21; “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”] There is something interesting about the word “lawlessness”. The first occurrence of the word “lawlessness” is in Matthew chapter 7. What is significant here is that Matthew 7 is part of the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount begins in Matthew chapter 5 and ends in Matthew chapter 7. What does the Lord deal with in this message? He deals with that which he loves and he deals with that which he hates. He deals with the righteousness which is of faith and He deals with the lawlessness of many.
These were workers of signs. [Matthew 7:22; “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils [demons]? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”]
They have done these wonderful things, but they are lawless! [Matthew 7:23; “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness].”] Here, in verse 21, we have a reference to entering into the Kingdom of the Heavens. “Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you will not enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens. Then, verse 22 deals with the workers of signs; the signs of prophesying, the casting out of demons, and miracles. These are signs that were worked in the day when Jesus was preaching and in the days just after that and in particular during the period of the book of Acts.
Signs, wonders, and miracles were being performed during the book of Acts. The reason that they were given signs, wonders, and miracles was to authenticate the man of God. Not everybody had a Bible. The only real Bible was the Old Testament in Hebrew and in Greek. The Bible was not completed until around 90 AD. The word of God was not complete and you could not check out a man based upon what he was saying, because you did not have a Bible to use to check him out. They were given signs, wonders, and miracles, but the were only for a time. There are going to be those who do these signs, wonders, and miracles, and they will be judged lawless.
The Lord says, “I never knew you”. I assure you that our God is not dumb. Our God knows everything; he is omniscient. What he is saying is that I do not recognize you because of your lawless behavior. He tells these that work these signs to depart. He is not sending them to the lake of fire. These people are not lost. Satan knows that a house divided will not stand. I assure you that Satan is not casting out Satan. Satan is not dividing his house. These people are saved people, and they are doing something that God does not want them to do, and God allows it to happen. Why does he allow that to happen? God allows it to happen to allow us to make choices in our own life as to whether we are going to be obedient or not. What choice do I want to make? I want to pursue the righteousness which of faith and the sign gifts do not promote faith. The sign gifts promote feelings, experiences, and seeing, and these are not of faith; they are of the flesh.
It is about obedience. It's works.
J.Jump said:Folks if they were casting out devils there is no way in the world they could be a lost person. Read Matthew 12. Jesus says basically that evil can not drive out evil.
Okay heres the thing, remember SATAN is the one who make Job sick? if he can make someone sick he can withdraw that as well, so if Satan can put demons into someone all he has to do is STOP doing that.
The bible says there will be many false miracles.
there will be many many christians in these last days who are going to do all sorts of apparent miracles... just as when the magician produced the snake then moses produced his.
secondly if Jesus says many will say they cast out demons but then He says depart from Me I never knew you, then OF COURSE some will do that,
doing miracles is no evidence that one belongs to God. just like when the bible talks about being a tinkling cymbal... you can be a martyr, deliver your body to be burned, etc but if you dont have love you are nothing but a tinkling cymbal.
Okay heres the thing, remember SATAN is the one who make Job sick? if he can make someone sick he can withdraw that as well, so if Satan can put demons into someone all he has to do is STOP doing that.
The bible says there will be many false miracles.
there will be many many christians in these last days who are going to do all sorts of apparent miracles... just as when the magician produced the snake then moses produced his.
secondly if Jesus says many will say they cast out demons but then He says depart from Me I never knew you, then OF COURSE some will do that,
doing miracles is no evidence that one belongs to God. just like when the bible talks about being a tinkling cymbal... you can be a martyr, deliver your body to be burned, etc but if you dont have love you are nothing but a tinkling cymbal.
So when He says "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness", He really means, "I do know you and you can come on in"?????
If he really meant, I do know you and enter in, why would He say I never knew you and depart from me? That doesn't make sense.
Ok, Jesus is talking about the broad gate that leads to destruction and the narrow way that leads to life and there are a few that find it.
Then He is talking about false teachers and those who bear bad fruit being cut down and thrown into the fire.
Then he is talking about people who call him Lord but don't do what he says and these people are told to "depart from me" but that really means come in????
What??? Heb 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," - but obedience isn't required?
I Jn 2:3-5,"And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him:"
According to these verses, there are no "saved people who don't care what's right and what's wrong in God's eyes".
The mental gymnastics required to follow that logic are too great for me.
depart from Me ye that work iniquity:
Jeremiah 16:9-12: For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God? Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and ye have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; And ye have done worse than your fathers.
Jeremiah 16:9-12: For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God? Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and ye have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law; And ye have done worse than your fathers.