Are you among the few or many?

[J. Jump]

Again eternal salvation is trying to be read into verses that are not talking about eternal salvation. If we don't keep these things separate then it can get difficult. But if we rightly divide the Word of Truth then it's as simple as simple can get.

A person today is dead in trespasses and sin. They can be made alive by salvation by grace through faith.

Once they are alive spiritually then they are in a position to understand the salvation of the soul, which doesn't have anything to do with eternal salvation. It is a temporal salvation that has to do with the 1,000-year kingdom.

This is what is being talked about when the Bible says to work out your salvation. The salvation of the soul has to do with obedience.

There will be some that are obedient and there will be some that aren't obedient. The ones that are will receive their inheritance and rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years and then there will be others that aren't obedient and they will forfeit their inheritance and will not rule and reign with Christ.

Christ says that He never knew these folks and they will not enter His kingdom, but that doesn't mean they were unsaved.

Look at the wedding feast. There is a person that is in the wedding feast that does not belong there and is cast outside. Do you think a lost person somehow accidently finds his/her way to the wedding feast? Not hardly. That is a saved individual that does not belong at the wedding feast because he/she was disobedient and will be cast outside.

All saved individuals make up the body of Christ (church), but not all of the body will make up the bride of Christ. There are Christians that are obedient and there are Christians that are not obedient.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Again eternal salvation is trying to be read into verses that are not talking about eternal salvation.

Amen, brother! A key word to look for is "Kingdom". All who are saved will see the Kingdom (born from above), but not all who will saved will enter (participate) the Kingdom (born of water and spirit). Many are called (saved) but few are called out (elect).

In Matthew 7, he's speaking to saved people and he says, "Behold, not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens" .

This is talking about entrance into the Kingdom, not spiritual salvation; it's salvation of the soul, as J. Jump has pointed out several times.

It's talking about works. Are we saved by works? No. Do we maintain our salvation by our works? No. Do we prove that we are saved by our works? No. We are justified by our works.

 

[tamborine lady]

J Jump said:Tam,

There is no gray area. Either they come out and obey or they do not. These folks said they cast out demons and we get no rebuke from Jesus calling them liars. So the text says they cast out demons - that can not be done by someone that is unsaved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tam says: Matthew 7-21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Like I said before, they think they did. They believe something, but it is wrong, they did not do it,they are asking a question, "didn't we".

Jesus says NO you did not, depart from me.

He did rebuke them, He said depart from me!!

There is a way that seemeth right unto man but the end thereof is death. Proverbs 16-25.

Peace,

Tam

 

[James_Newman]

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[J. Jump]

Tam you are exactly correct in that they were rebuked. But they were rebuked for doing the wrong kind of work, not lying about the work they were doing.

They were working iniquity, because they were doing something other than what God had planned for them to do. He didn't call them liars. They were doing work, just not the right kind of work.

 

[gekko]

"Lawlessness is doing what is right in your own eyes." ??

Lawlessness is sin. we can agree with that... but what is sin? 1John 3:4 "sin is the transgression of the law" in other words... breaking God's law.

"oh but Jesus got rid of the law when he died on the cross and rose again..." you might say? nah. read the word. Jesus said "I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law" (no im not quoting exactly)

those who are christians and still break God's laws... are the 'many'... those who are christians but try keeping the laws, repent of their sin, and then become 'born-again' 7 times over... are the 'many'... those who keep the law... keep the commandments... those are the 'few'... Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments" - dont bother saying it's legalistic following the law... it wont work on this one...

 

[BobRyan]

Gekko- right on the button!! Bullseye!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
HERE'S THE CHILDREN'S VERSION:

depart from Me I NEVER KNEW YOU


Ti:1:16: They profess that they know God ; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Good point

 

[Dustin]

Sinless perfection?

 

[gekko]

yes dustin. sinless perfection.

huh? where'd you get that from?

but Jesus was sinless... and He was perfect.

 

[gekko]

Hope of Glory said:

"we are justified by our works"

What works? "works" is just a word that is said to christians so that they aren't scared of the word "law".

so in essence what HofG is saying is: "we are justified by the law" now of course we aren't saved by the law. (or by works... same deal)

the law doesn't justify us. it just leaves us guilty before God Almighty.

 

[Dustin]

Well, I was jsut gonna say that sinless perfection is unattainable for us, hence our great need for Christ. Following the law isn't legalistic, but turning things into law that were never meant to be law is.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Lawlessness is sin, but not all sin is lawlessness. Sin is simply missing the mark; lawlessness means that you don't care what God wants you to do.

James 2:24-25 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

So, Rahab lied to cover up for the spies, yet she was justified by her works. How does this tie into following the law equals works?

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous [just] before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments were "meant to be Law".

So also Deut 6:5 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart".

So also Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

There are some things that are "easy" to get.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Dustin]

I never said the Commandments weren't meant to be law.

 

[BobRyan]

Ok -- so how about not worshipping other Gods or engaging in idol worship - do we "Really" have to go along with that - or can we sin now and then because we are still enslaved to sin rather than set free to live in harmony with Christ "No longer I who lives but Christ that lives in me"

??

Is it your argument that as a Christian "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to mankind and God is faithful who will NOT ALLOW you to be tempted beyond that which YOU are able" 1Cor 10 -- ??

Are you saying as Paul said in Romans 6 that we are not enslaved to sin - slaves to rebellion against Christ?

My argument is not that we ARE sinless - it is that we are set free from sinning and when we do sin we can NOT claim that our sinful nature or Satan or ... whatever.. has overpowered the Gospel and bound us to sin no matter what the Gospel does for us. RATHER we have to admit that we CHOSE to sin of our own free will EVEN though we were given the FREEDOM to really yield to Christ instead!

In Christ,

Bob

In Christ,

Bob

 

[gekko]

ok... so i didn't read the verse in James...

the law does leave us guilty though... which was the point i was getting across...


p.s. im not a big fan of stereotypical phrases like "sin is missing the mark" things like that... its another one of those things that is used just to get away from the law. bible says "sin is transgression of the law" how does one get 'missing the mark' out of that?

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 3 "all have sinned AND FALLEN SHORT of the glory of God"

 

[tamborine lady]

Ephesians 5-27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

I just have one question, if we can't be Holy even as Jesus was Holy, and we can't stop sinning, then how is He going to get a spotless bride out of this bunch?(meaning all of us)

Selah,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

You are right Bob, we have all sinned, but after we accept Jesus and begin to live FOR Him, we can begin to live LIKE Him!!

Tam