Are you among the few or many?

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Ok -- so how about not worshipping other Gods or engaging in idol worship - do we "Really" have to go along with that - or can we sin now and then because we are still enslaved to sin rather than set free to live in harmony with Christ "No longer I who lives but Christ that lives in me"

Bob

You can do anything you want without affecting your spiritual salvation. But, if you ignore the law and practice lawlessness, it will certainly affect your standing. You will not find yourself justified, and you will have to answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ. There will be some who will receive rewards, some will suffer loss, and some will be chastized for their actions.

But, you salvation is dependent upon the work of the Lord Jesus, not on your works.

 

[tamborine lady]

I never really got an answer to my question:

Ephesians 5-27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

I just have one question, if we can't be Holy even as Jesus was Holy, and we can't stop sinning, then how is He going to get a spotless bride out of this bunch?(meaning all of us)

Selah,

Tam

************************************

Then HofG said:

You can do anything you want without affecting your spiritual salvation. But, if you ignore the law and practice lawlessness, it will certainly affect your standing. You will not find yourself justified, and you will have to answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ. There will be some who will receive rewards, some will suffer loss, and some will be chastized for their actions.
***********************************

I never got an answer to my question, unless Hof G gave an answer for everyone.

So we can be part of the Bride of Christ, without spot or blemish, even though we are "doing anything we want"??



Wondering??

Tam

 

[Hope of Glory]

The Bride will be taken out of the body. You can do anything you want, and you will still be saved, but the bride is the elect; the out-called ones. Just like Eve was taken out of the body of Adam (she was always a part of his body) and then presented to him as a bride, so the bride will be taken out of the body of Christ.

Thinking that the bride of Christ is all the saved contradicts what Scripture clearly teaches.

 

[tamborine lady]

Could you give us scripture to that effect please?

Tam

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
The Bride will be taken out of the body.

What a great quote. Imagine how our doctrinal views would change if that quote had been taken from scripture!

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
You can do anything you want, and you will still be saved,

What a great Quote! Imagine how our doctrines would change IF that had come from scripture!

Wait - I DO have one that comes from scripture!

Originally posted by BobRyan:

From http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3776.html#000001


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />2Cor 5
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Phil 3
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, "" I have come to know Him,'' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Matt 7
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Rom 2
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Rev 14
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and

Romans 2:8
but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


2 Thessalonians 1:8
dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? their faith in Jesus.

Phil 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

God has saved a world in rebellion -- calling us to leave rebellion and submit to Christ. What shall we do?

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Could you give us scripture to that effect please?

Tam

You ask for a simple answer to a complex question. That sort of thing is what leads to accepting gibberish tongues as being from God and baptism for salvation and the belief that your spiritual salvation can be lost. All Scriptures have to be looked at in light of others. Precept upon precept and line upon line is the way we are instruct to do things.

The Bride of Christ is something that we have been studying in depth at our Wednesday evening Bible studies for 4 weeks, and expect it to go on for another 10 weeks or more.

Right now is a busy time for me, as I am preparing for an art show and I'm working overtime at my other job in addition to preparing the lessons at church. I will pare down the outline and post it as soon as time permits.

 

[tamborine lady]

HofG said: You ask for a simple answer to a complex question. That sort of thing is what leads to accepting gibberish tongues as being from God and baptism for salvation and the belief that your spiritual salvation can be lost. All Scriptures have to be looked at in light of others. Precept upon precept and line upon line is the way we are instruct to do things.


The question was, do you have scripture to back that up!

My bible is easy to understand. Just give me something to start on. But spare me big lengthy disertation. You either have an answer or you don't!

Salvation is simple.
Walking in the Holy Spirit is simple.
So too should be the explanation of the bride of Christ and the body of Christ.

If it takes 16 or more weeks to understand it, are you sure you are on the right track?

I think you have a complex answer for a simple question.

BTW what I believe should have nothing to do with your answer.

Peace,

Tam

 

[J. Jump]

Tam you can see the answer to your question in the story of Adam and Eve, because Adam typified Christ. You can also see this picture in the dealings surrounding Isaac and his bride Rebecca.

You can also see this in several of the parables.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

The question was, do you have scripture to back that up!

Well, in case you missed it, the answer is yes, and I will post the outline when I get a bit more time. Getting ready for the art show, working overtime, and preparing three lessons per week is a bit time consuming.

Salvation is simple.

Yes it is, and people still mess it up. "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." Very simple and unalterable. Yet people still think that works are required or that it can be lost or all sorts of things that are anti-biblical. (Of course, there is more than one salvation referred to in the Bible, and I'm assuming you are referring to spiritual salvation.)

So too should be the explanation of the bride of Christ and the body of Christ.

"Simple" and "short" are two separate ideas. The context is Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. There's a reason that God gave us all those pages in the Bible.

If it takes 16 or more weeks to understand it, are you sure you are on the right track?

Absolutely. We do that to make sure there is not misunderstanding and nothing taken out of context. Looking at every related passage.

If you are taking fewer than 16 weeks, are you sure you're on the right track?

I think you have a complex answer for a simple question.

Who says it's a simple question? Once again, why do you think God gave us all those pages. There are many "simple" understandings of doctrines such as spiritual salvation and babbling gibberish, but people still hold strongly to false doctrines, because they fail to take every passage and put it into context.

BTW what I believe should have nothing to do with your answer.

Peace,

Tam

Certainly it should, because everything in my answer will be based on the Bible.

As JJump has pointed out, we are given many types of the bride through Scripture, starting near the beginning of Genesis and all through the OT and NT.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
The Bride will be taken out of the body. You can do anything you want, and you will still be saved, but the bride is the elect; the out-called ones. Just like Eve was taken out of the body of Adam (she was always a part of his body) and then presented to him as a bride, so the bride will be taken out of the body of Christ.

Thinking that the bride of Christ is all the saved contradicts what Scripture clearly teaches.

Wait a minuet I thought the "Bride of Christ" was the "Church" (ie the ones that believe in Jesus)? Now you are saying that the Bride will be taken out of the church (the believers) like Adams rib was taken to form Eve?

I'm trying to find the shadow of this bride being taken out of the body in the OT and for any reasoning of why it would be that way HofG, but it not there. In all honesty, I'd like to see these scriptures too.

 

[J. Jump]

The church is the body of Christ. His side was pierced with blood and water flowing out after He was dead so that the bride could come out of His side just like Eve came out of Adam when he was put to sleep (picture of death).

So how does one become part of the bride? A Christian becomes part of the bride by keeping Christ's commandments, by allowing the Holy Spirit to convict one of his/her sin and then confessing it and asking forgiveness based on Christ's work as High Priest where His blood sits on the mercy seat. And you can see this picture in the foot washing ceremony. Christians have been washed, but from time to time need parts washed.

One becomes a part of the bride by looking to the things above not the things below, by running the race of faith, by working out our salvation, by overcoming, by perservering, by not drawing back to perdition, by accepting God's discipline.

Basically the entire NT is given to educate us on how to become part of the bride of Christ. But the body (church) of Christ does not make up the bride of Christ...only a portion of the body as only a portion of the body was taken to create Eve.

Again this can be seen when Abraham tells his servant to go to his family and find a bride for his son Isaac. Abraham is a picture of God. The servant is a picture of the Holy Spirit and Isaac is a picture of Christ.

So the servant goes to his family and finds Rebecca. The entire family didn't become Isaac's bride, but only part of the family.

The Holy Spirit is in the world today to find that bride for the Son. The Holy Spirit has always been in the world regarding salvation by grace through faith. But now the Spirit has come to find the bride.

 

[tamborine lady]

HofG said:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW what I believe should have nothing to do with your answer.

Peace,

Tam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Certainly it should, because everything in my answer will be based on the Bible.

As JJump has pointed out, we are given many types of the bride through Scripture, starting near the beginning of Genesis and all through the OT and NT.

**********************************

Tam says:

I know there is dig in your answer. You are saying that I do not believe the bible, and that my answers don't come from the bible. That is an attack on my belief, but I will let it pass, because it doesn't matter. (I too believe what the bible says BTW)

But the fact still remains, what I believe should have nothing to do with your answer.

As J Jump explains it, I see what you are saying, and how you came to that answer.

But you must have missed all of Bob Ryans answers. All the scripture he posted is showing us what a Christian is. Why we are striving for the mark, and how we get there.

HofG and Jjump, if the bride comes out of the church, and all the church are Christians, (only saved people are referred to as the Church), then what happens to the ones that are not the bride?

Discarded, given a little shack in the corner of gloryland? Serve the ones who were "chosen" as the bride?

And let me guess, you are going to be part of the bride I suppose?

Selah,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

If you are saying that Jesus is the body, and the "chosen" ones are the Bride, then that would mean that the Bride is more excellent than the body of Christ.

As in Eve would have been more special than Adam, etc.

Selah,

Tam

 

[J. Jump]

Tam the church is the body of Christ not Jesus Himself. The bride is taken out of the body.

You can see what happens to Christians that don't become part of the bride in several of the parables. You can see this picture in what happened to Lot in the OT. He made it to the mountain (mountain typifies kingdom), but he did not dwell with the Lord, but in a cave and in a place of shame.

The picture that is given for non-overcoming Christians in not a pretty picture, and that's why it is so important to get the message out and truly disciple folks.

As far as being a part of the bride I can only speak for myself, but I think HoG would agree that there is no guarantee that we will be a part. It all depends on if we hold fast to the truth and if we work out our salvation and all the other things that Scripture tell us to do once we have been made alive Spiritually.

It is my hope and my prayer that I will continue to abide in His Word and that when that day comes I will be found worthy, not becuase I am worthy, but because I allowed the Holy Spirit to manifest the life of Christ in me.

That's the amazing thing about God's grace. It has everything to do with Him and nothing to do with me. That grace continues after we are saved. A friend of mine's dad, who is a pastor, describes God's grace as God doing for us what He requires of us and then giving us credit.

All that is done that will stand the test of fire will have been acomplished by the Spirit, but God will give me credit as if I did it myself.

And I hope and pray that I will continue to die to self and that He will continue to work in me and through me.

Hope that helps clarify a bit more.

 

[music4Him]

Thank you J.Jump for your reply but see here is where I feel that what you and HofG explaination gets confusing. Here is Paul speaking of the church.

1Co 12:14-27
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Hummmm... I just don't see why only a part will be taken out of the church to be the bride. If so what part would Jesus take? I believe Jesus would want the whole body. It would be no fun if I only took the parts of my husband I liked and discarded that which I don't like. The stinky feet would be first to take a hike.

I'm so glad Jesus loves us 100% and not in parts.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

I find it interesting that this thread began with the title question intended to mean, "Are you 'Church of Christ'?" and has come to mean, six pages later, "Are you Baptist?"

 

[J. Jump]

Music4Him I have no problem with saying that passage talks about the church being the body of Christ. But nowhere in that passage does it talk about the whole body being the bride.

So I'm not sure how you can come away with an understanding that just because all Christians make up the body and all Christians are important for the body to work properly (which I agree with all that) that equals that all Christians will be the bride. That's just not there.

To find out who the bride will be we have to deal with Scripture that speaks to that subject.

And if the entire body of Christ was to make up the bride of Christ then it would have had to be the same with Adam (because that is a type/antitype situation where both have to be the same). But we see that it was not Adam's entire body, but a portion of his body, so it has to be with Christ. It will not be His entire body, but the part of His body that allows themselves to go through the process of becoming His bride. Some will and unfortunately some will not.

There is a part of the body that is sick and not doing it's part. Why would Christ want that part to be a part of His bride? And I'm not excluding myself from that sick part, because there is no guarantee that I won't myself be found in that state. It is my hope and prayer that I am not, but it is not guaranteed.

 

[music4Him]

Quote by J.Jump:
---------------------------------------------------
Some will and unfortunately some will not.
---------------------------------------------------

Ok what happens to these that won't be part of the "Bride"?

 

[music4Him]

Something is wrong with this....because the blood of Jesus cleased me and made me whole. If I'm covered in the blood then God sees the blood and not my sin. If theres a sick part then it will be healed in heaven because the bible says that there is no sickness there.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.