Are you Going to Graceland?

[thatbrian]

Calvinists and those who oppose them argue over "free will". Many misunderstand the Calvinist position of the bondage of man's will.

Calvinists understand that men are free to choose, but their freedom can be described as a man locked in a room. Is that man free? Yes and no. He is not free to visit his family or take a trip to Graceland, but he is free to sit in the chair or stand up. He is free to read the magazine on the corner table or do pushups.

Sinful men are free to do what sinful men do, but only men set free by Christ can take that trip to Graceland.

 

[Rippon]

I thought the subject was Elvis. Jan. 8 is the anniversary of his death. Although I am a fan of his incredible voice I have never been to his place in Memphis.

 

[InTheLight]

Calvinists and those who oppose them argue over "free will". Many misunderstand the Calvinist position of the bondage of man's will.

Calvinists understand that men are free to choose, but their freedom can be described as a man locked in a room. Is that man free? Yes and no. He is not free to visit his family or take a trip to Graceland, but he is free to sit in the chair or stand up. He is free to read the magazine on the corner table or do pushups.

Sinful men are free to do what sinful men do, but only men set free by Christ can take that trip to Graceland.

Once again a Calvinist says that regeneration creates free will.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[thatbrian]

I thought the subject was Elvis. Jan. 8 is the anniversary of his death. Although I am a fan of his incredible voice I have never been to his place in Memphis.

A bit too young to be an Elvis fan, but when I move to TN, I certainly will stop in for a visit.

 

[thatbrian]

Once again a Calvinist says that regeneration creates free will.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

The will is never free in the libertarian sense, and the "old man" is not yet dead. True freedom will only be realized upon glorification, not regeneration.

 

[InTheLight]

The will is never free in the libertarian sense, and the "old man" is not yet dead. True freedom will only be realized upon glorification, not regeneration.

If not having free will means a person cannot make a choice for righteousness (person is bound by their fallen nature), and being regenerated means one can now choose to do righteousness, doesn't that cover both sides of the choices involved in the will?

What is another option?



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[thatbrian]

If not having free will means a person cannot make a choice for righteousness (person is bound by their fallen nature), and being regenerated means one can now choose to do righteousness, doesn't that cover both sides of the choices involved in the will?

What is another option?



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

There are only two. Did I imply there were three?

 

[InTheLight]

There are only two. Did I imply there were three?

Ok, then what is "true freedom of the will?"

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[TCassidy]

If not having free will means a person cannot make a choice for righteousness (person is bound by their fallen nature), and being regenerated means one can now choose to do righteousness, doesn't that cover both sides of the choices involved in the will?

No. It just covers your failure to understand the false notion of free will.

What is another option?

There is no option. The will is not free.

Ok, then what is "true freedom of the will?"

There is no such thing. The will is either bound to the law of sin and death or is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

 

[thatbrian]

Ok, then what is "true freedom of the will?"

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Complete and perfect obedience to God.

 

[InTheLight]

There is no such thing. The will is either bound to the law of sin and death or is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

Complete and perfect obedience to God.

Beautiful. One Calvinist says there is no such thing as true freedom of the will and another one says there is.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[thatbrian]

Beautiful. One Calvinist says there is no such thing as true freedom of the will and another one says there is.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

First, it's evident that Tom is referring to life this side of glory, and I was referring to the other side. Second, I came up with my answer without reference to any official Calvinist position. That was my personal answer, not a representation of Reformed thought.

Lastly, do all Arminians respond in lock-step to questions of theology?

 

[TCassidy]

First, it's evident that Tom is referring to life this side of glory, and I was referring to the other side.

Don't bother. He knows that. But he can't honestly discuss the issue so he snarks and posts falsehoods. That's all he has.

 

[Alcott]

Calvinists understand that men are free to choose, but their freedom can be described as a man locked in a room. Is that man free? Yes and no. He is not free to visit his family or take a trip to Graceland, but he is free to sit in the chair or stand up. He is free to read the magazine on the corner table or do pushups.

Interestingly, Elvis could be described as being "free" in the sense of rising from a small house with a dirt floor to becoming wealthy enough to have almost anything he desired. But ironically, he had less freedom than the average American in the sense of being able to go for a walk around town or to a neighborhood snow cone stand. As long as he was within Graceland, he was free to do a lot of things most of us aren't-- he had 3 cooks to prepare whatever he wanted (which the tour guide said was usually either meatloaf or fried peanut butter & banana sandwiches), free to kick in televisions when angry because the cost of another was nothing to him, was free to pick sides among his "Memphis Mafia" to 'play war' with fireworks on the grounds there... But that's how freedom, as far too many people understand it, is very illusory. As there is a world outside Graceland that is virtually infinite by comparison, there is a world outside our physical world that is indeed infinite by comparison. And that makes Graceland a very ironic term for that place.

 

[thatbrian]

that makes Graceland a very ironic term for that place.

It certainly does, and that helps the argument. Elvis, like all sinners, was in a prison.

Unregenerate men are no more free than men a death row. Their "freedom" is a delusion which helps them temporarily ignore what they know is their fate.