Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Excellent post BR. :thumbs:
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Are You Saving Yourself?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
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HP: Excellent post BR. :thumbs:
Probably some of your error comes from not checking your english translation against the Greek to see if it was properly translated.
"Ensure salvation" would certainly look good for your position but that is pure error in translation. Probably an "interpretation" insert, this is why I like a word for word translation and even then the Greek and Hebrew are a must many times. I simply want a translation not someone's interpretation.
"sozo" is the word in question and it means to save, i.e. deliver or protect. Translated "salvation" is absolute error. Salvation has it's own Greek word "soteria" or "soterion".
Maybe the NASB translators were of the losing salvation persuasion and this is why they boosted this verse up a bit, I don't know, but it is just plain error and almost blantantly so.
God Bless! :thumbs:
steaver said:
Appreciate the clarification, as I did have my wonderings about having to "maintain" one's "saved" state, by perservering according to the NASB use of "salvation". To "protect" ones faith makes much more sense in light of the magnitude of being "born again". Can't fathom being "unborn again".
I still have had a hard time figuring how one can "hiccup" and lose their salvation and then have to "perservere" to prove it.
Being saved is having received eternal life and a new nature in Christ. How do we "un-new creature" ourselves once we are this New Creation/creature in Christ?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: According to Scripture it is a simple process. Simply turn from your righteous standing you received when you were born again and return to you old ways of sin, refusing to repent and turn once again in faith to Christ for forgiveness.
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
How does one turn from their righteous standing which they did not secure for themselves to begin with?Heavenly Pilgrim said:
You cannot make yourself righteous. Your righteousness is in reality the righteousness of Christ. Unless He becomes unrighteous, your righteous standing is secure. It is because of who He is and what He has done. Once He saves you, you are justified.
Ever heard of double jeopardy? Once you've been tried and found not guilty, you cannot be tried for the same crime again, because of the authority of the judge who pronounced you innocent.
God is the supreme authority and once He pronounces you "justified", He will not recend His judgement. If He did, He would not be a just judge.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: It sounds to me like you have a real problem with God’s Word concerning this passage and how it aligns with your established doctrines. If it does not fit ones presuppositions it would be wise to consider re-evaluating them.
What passage? I was responding to your post about turning from your righteous standing.Heavenly Pilgrim said:
I think you are the one with presuppositions. I believe scripture.
I was not raised in a Christian home. I was 22 years old when I was saved. I had no biblical teaching whatsoever. I remember shortly after I was saved reading these verses:
Jhn 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of My Father's hand.
I believed it then and I believe it now.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: No one approaches Scripture void of all truth. I also believe Scripture and it states, Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.”
I simply believe this passage as well as the ones you mentioned. No snatching mentioned in this passage, just a self inflicted voluntary turning from the state they were birthed into subsequent to ‘salvation by faith.’
Were in the world did you come up with this conclusion from Eze 18:26??
Were in the passage is it said the man was "birthed into salvation by faith"?
Contrary; The passage states his righteousness. You do not consult the full counsel of God's word in your studies or conclusions.
If you did you would find this...
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Dan 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
I could go on and on. You have terribly misused Eze 18 to prop up your view of one losing their salvation through faith.
God Bless! :thumbs:
Steaver, I was going to say that the Ez. passage was speaking about "our" righteousness, but you did a much better job!
This is exactly what the Pharisees were doing. They relied on their "own" righteousness to be saved. But Jesus said, "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins".
Our only righteousness is in Christ. That's why I said that you cannot "lose your righteous standing" with God (as HP said) unless Christ loses His righteous standing with the Father. (because we are hidden in Christ) Which ain't gonna happen.
This is exactly what the Pharisees were doing. They relied on their "own" righteousness to be saved. But Jesus said, "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins".
Our only righteousness is in Christ. That's why I said that you cannot "lose your righteous standing" with God (as HP said) unless Christ loses His righteous standing with the Father. (because we are hidden in Christ) Which ain't gonna happen.
Luk 18:9¶And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Would you clasify yourself as a Pharisee or as a publican?
Second question, Do you trust in yourself that you are righteous?
I am the publican.
God Bless! :thumbs:
Luk 18:10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Would you clasify yourself as a Pharisee or as a publican?
Second question, Do you trust in yourself that you are righteous?
I am the publican.
God Bless! :thumbs:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I would like for one person on this list to show me where I have ever set forth or even insinuated that I believe that I am saved by my own righteousness. Nothing could be further from the truth, and if one is looking for slanderous remarks, look no further than some of the comments that have been recently made on this thread.
No man is saved on the account of his own righteousness. The grounds of salvation is the mercy of God period. Just the same no man will be saved apart from being righteous.
1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
No man is saved on the account of his own righteousness. The grounds of salvation is the mercy of God period. Just the same no man will be saved apart from being righteous.
1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I did nothing but quote Scripture.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Amy, here is a verse for us to contemplate in light of your question. When do the righteous enter life eternal according to this verse?
Before you imply that I am teaching that we do not inherit eternal life by faith at salvation, let me assure you that I am not. We do enter into eternal life at salvation, by faith. We have the earnest of our inheritance now, we now have a sure hope and our faith shall be turned to sight at the judgment, IF we have remained steadfast unto the end. Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.