-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Are you the 5th Gospel?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
convicted1
Guest
Whoa there...pump your brakes, please.
:thumbsup: Exactly. And we are to be bearers of the gospel to a lost world.
Note that this is the point of "the Fifth Gospel." To show by word and action the gospel message. Conway is here (in the clips...I have not read the book) being very biblical in presenting the gospel of Christ.
Unfortunately too many will merely see it as "another gospel," rather than almost (if not exactly) a verbatim exercise of Scripture. At first I though "unfortunate title," then I realized that using the word "Gospel" as in the "four Gospels" is not actually wrong. We are to carry the gospel of Christ (as the Gospels also carry the gospel of Christ) to the world.
A fuller description:
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2014/07/you-are-the-fifth-gospel-an-interview-with-bobby-conway/
I realize that we are not speaking of the book (so far, no one has indicated that they have read the book) but the premise that we are called in the Great Commission not only to proclaim Christ in word but also in deed (how we live our lives).
That said, some here have voiced strong objection to that notion. WebDog and Old Regular see it as blasphemy. Evang views it as not preaching election. What was actually said, however, had nothing to do with continued, or even progressive, revelation….or a continuation of Scripture. What was said was that we are to bring an account of the gospel (e.g., a substantial aim of the four Gospels) in word by proclaiming the gospel of Christ but that we are also to show the gospel of Jesus Christ in how we live our lives.
What I have seen in the video and link forms a substantial, vital and foundational truth of Christianity. What I need is for someone to point out what I have missed. Where is this wrong in terms of proclaiming the gospel?
Last edited by a moderator:
John. You left a lengthy review of "The Fifth Gospel" on Amazon. But you never even read the book????
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fifth-Gos...?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
You have lost credibility, brother. I notice another posted on Amazon, stating that you must not have read the book based on your review. You are bearing false witness. How does this stack up against God's law? How is it reflective of the issue Conway is at least trying to address..."Christians" living like the world?
BTW, Conway strongly links living a sanctified life to proclaiming (in word) the gospel message. What he questions is preaching the word while living like the world.
Last edited by a moderator:
I have not read every page, but I have read enough to get the picture of what he is teaching and have objections to it. Also being Arminian makes no difference, as I will recommend certain Arminian evangelism books that stay true to the gospel message.
John, you read what was available at amazon (per your post). This is not enough to get a full picture of what the author is presenting. More to the point, however, it is not enough to pretend you read the book in order to offer a review. Don't justify your actions, they are unjustifiable.
Jordan,
I agree no objections.
Because we are to bare testimony to Christ and show that we love him by what we do. People will know that we represent Christ, but this does not mean we will be accepted or that our message will change them. Just take a look at the life of Jesus and the Apostles in Acts.
Agreed and I have not disagreed with that part as a testimony substantiates the gospel.
But also remember you are closed minded to the effectual call of the spirit and the many scriptures that defend it. You refuse to hear the other argument so your mind is closed. You need to be a thinker and have a open mind. I can try and explain things to you, and also recommend books for you to read, but you won't hear the arguments. I have heard the Arminian arguments, and also read their books, because I am a critical thinker which is what you need to be. I read books because I am interested, and I wish to do my part and improve my evangelism game, and God will do His part in election.
Lets say for example when I went out witnessing I was dressed in shabby clothes with lots of holes, was carrying a six pack, and cussed like a mad dog when I did evangelism. Who would listen to me, and by my efforts I may be interfering with God using me to draw the elect to salvation. But maybe not I don't know as God uses poor dead and disobedient Christians to draw them to salvation.
ELECTION
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the LORD of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."
Effectual Calling
Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Then why post in it? You are also interested.
Agreed, but also remember he commanded them to PREACH THE GOSPEL and their lives would be a testimony of the gospel.
I agree no objections.
Because we are to bare testimony to Christ and show that we love him by what we do. People will know that we represent Christ, but this does not mean we will be accepted or that our message will change them. Just take a look at the life of Jesus and the Apostles in Acts.
Agreed and I have not disagreed with that part as a testimony substantiates the gospel.
But also remember you are closed minded to the effectual call of the spirit and the many scriptures that defend it. You refuse to hear the other argument so your mind is closed. You need to be a thinker and have a open mind. I can try and explain things to you, and also recommend books for you to read, but you won't hear the arguments. I have heard the Arminian arguments, and also read their books, because I am a critical thinker which is what you need to be. I read books because I am interested, and I wish to do my part and improve my evangelism game, and God will do His part in election.
Lets say for example when I went out witnessing I was dressed in shabby clothes with lots of holes, was carrying a six pack, and cussed like a mad dog when I did evangelism. Who would listen to me, and by my efforts I may be interfering with God using me to draw the elect to salvation. But maybe not I don't know as God uses poor dead and disobedient Christians to draw them to salvation.
ELECTION
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the LORD of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."
Effectual Calling
Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Then why post in it? You are also interested.
Agreed, but also remember he commanded them to PREACH THE GOSPEL and their lives would be a testimony of the gospel.
Last edited by a moderator:
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
"That doesn’t mean the believer should put his words on pause. God forbid. As Paul declared in Romans 10:14, “How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?” Paul was all about presenting the gospel, but not at the expense of portraying the gospel." (Conway)
Um...I'm confused. JonC mentioned nothing about Arminianism. Why did you?
That is not what I said, but I did bring it up on amazon. My biggest complaint there, from someone who does look at reviews, was John posting a review without reading the book. It was dishonest.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ah. Y'all are mixing your back-and-forth on Amazon with your back-and-forth here. That helps put it in context; and since I'm not gonna go to Amazon to see what you're saying there, I'll back out of this conversation entirely.
Well...I do have to make a comment: John, I haven't read Conway's book. Based on what I've read here on this message board between you and JonC and others, is it okay for me to say that it's garbage?
If you say why, of course it's ok. That's what discussions are for. But you needn't back out. The soteriology mixing is a few posts back. You don't have to go to amazon for that.
My concern is the "garbage" verdicts without support. It may be trash but at least tell me why so I can see what I am missing here.
Last edited by a moderator:
I am getting a copy of the book by someone mailing me one. I was reminded I need to be fair and read the whole book cover to cover. I will post a updated review.
I also hate it when people dismiss Lahaye and all without actually reading his meaty books but just do so based on some blogger or what someone else says. I really hate that so I should not do likewise. Or when Hank Hanagraaf dismissed good solid books by Answers in Genesis but still continues to air his old earth non sense. That really angers me. So I need to not be like these people.
Or when another blogger attacks a pastor hero of mine yet refuses to listen to his sermons that refute his blog or read his books but the blogger just takes things out of context to air an agenda. I hate that so I am a hypocrite for doing the same to Bobby.
I also hate it when people dismiss Lahaye and all without actually reading his meaty books but just do so based on some blogger or what someone else says. I really hate that so I should not do likewise. Or when Hank Hanagraaf dismissed good solid books by Answers in Genesis but still continues to air his old earth non sense. That really angers me. So I need to not be like these people.
Or when another blogger attacks a pastor hero of mine yet refuses to listen to his sermons that refute his blog or read his books but the blogger just takes things out of context to air an agenda. I hate that so I am a hypocrite for doing the same to Bobby.
Huh? That statement above just struck me as odd. Lahaye and meaty in the same sentence is puzzling and quite frankly;funny.
You need go read his books before you jump the gun.
Read Charting the End times and look up every scripture reference. Have you done this?
Revised review.
This book is an attack on the doctrine of the sovereignty of God in salvation and promotes a ME Centered evangelism technique. Also it can be interpreted heretical to say that I am the 5th gospel. Conway writes;
"Every Christian's life is sending a message. The question is, "What kind of message are we sending?" As followers of Jesus, our lives are on display. They're being read. Paul the apostle, in speaking to the Corinthians said, "You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on our hearts, to be known and read by all. And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." (2 Cor. 3:2-3). Our lives tell a story. A narrative. They communicate. But what do they communicate? That's the question. Our lives are meant to be good news in a bad news world. They're meant to be contagious. Magnetic. Desirable.....To see our life is to read our life. People should read our actions and our words and think, "I want what they have." They should read the story of our lives and sense something otherworldly. "
It is true that a Christian is to live like Christ among the pagans, and his/her light must shine. However good morals are practiced daily by atheists, homosexuals, New Agers, and many cults including the Mormons whom are very moral & friendly people. Does this make them Christians because they live good lives? Frankly I think that Conway does not understand the following scripture passages.
Psa 19:7-8
Heb 4:12
Eph 6:17
Jer 23:29
A quote from John MacArthur's book Can God Bless America?
"That means our best weapon in this warfare is not the carnal political process, but the mighty proclamation of God's word--preaching the gospel in particular" (79).
The word of God is what convicts the heart, enlightens the eyes, makes wise the simple, and rejoices the heart (Psa 19, KJV). Our own goodness is as filthy rags and can never change anyone as only God's almighty word & spirit can do that. Conway needs to rename this book and work on his thesis.
NOTE- The above review is based on what I have read from the book on amazon, Bible Answer-man & Bible gateway Interviews, & A YouTube video. These sources I believe have given me a general synopsis of the book, but others say I am wrong, so I have taken the challenge to read the book cover to cover and will revise my review if appropriate.
Did you read the book itself, or just the Amazon preview?