Ariz. gov. vetoes religious rights bill

[Alcott]

What about gays who believe in God.

If you go to any church of any size there are gays who are members. You may not know they are there, but they are and some hold positions of responsibility and are highly respected.

Yes, and so are adulterers, tax cheaters, child abusers, even atheists.

 

[church mouse guy]

Has anyone been told that they should have to do that?

The only instance I've seen where someone has been told that they have to do something like this is the cake store owner in Colorado who was told by a judge that he must provide a wedding cake for a gay couple even if he does have religious reasons for not wanting to do so.

That's a situation where the store owners rights have been infringed upon just as much as they say the gay couples had.

Personally, I think if Christians see an opportunity to love those who have set themselves up as the enemies of Christ, they should.

If you're going to be a business, be a business. Be professional and serve customers. Love them and send them on their way.

Does he sell cakes to non-Christians for other non-Christian events? Does Chick fil a not sell platters to folks for non-Christian events?

If it's a business, don't get it confused with the church. This was a Republican sponsored bill. It was a very bad bill written in such a way that the CHURCH gets railroaded into a POLITICAL conversation in which it didn't need to be. The enemy is behind the scenes in both of these wicked parties.

Of course, you are right and many Americans are rich from Satan's wages, or as the poet e.e. Cummings put it:

"Humanity i love you
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] because you would rather black the boots of[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] success than enquire whose soul dangles from his[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] watch-chain which would be embarrassing for both[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] parties...." [/FONT]

And you are right that juries gave cakes to O.J. Simpson and Claus Von Bulow.

And I think that most Christians would bake a cake for Planned Parenthood....or put the hammer and sickle on one for Pete Seeger....etc., etc., etc....

Do you really have to wear a shirt and shoes to enter a fast food restaurant?

 

[just-want-peace]

While I would normally agree that such a law is ridiculous, perhaps the fact that a judge can force you to do business with those you would normally refuse, indicates there IS a need for such a law????????!!!!!!!!

IOW, if you (liberals) can use the judicial system to force me, a private citizen running a private business, to associate with those I do not choose to, then perhaps I need to us the legislative system to force you to leave me alone.

Now I fully understand that there are some limitations on this freedom, but we are not discussing extremes here; simply day-to-day business, so don't get your panties in a wad claiming I'm going to deprive some baby of milk!!!

 

[sag38]

Such laws could easily be used against conservative Christians. We wonder why homosexuals are acting the way they act toward those who disagree with them. Well,they are simply returning the favor. It's one thing to judge within the church body but to do so outside in the secular realm is not what we are called to do.

I Corinthians 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in a letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- 10 by no means referring to this world's immoral people, or to the greedy and swindlers, or to idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world. 11 But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a reviler, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. 12 For what is it to me to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But God judges outsiders. Put away the evil person from among yourselves.HCSB

 

[Zaac]

That's the real question. Am I free, or am I a slave?

You're a bondservant for Christ. Stop worrying about what this world is trying to do to your rights. This world system belongs to the enemy. The enemy is supposed to treat you this way.

You'll "win" some and you'll "lose" some. Just don't lose focus of the real fight.:thumbs:

 

[Zaac]

Such laws could easily be used against conservative Christians. We wonder why homosexuals are acting the way they act toward those who disagree with them. Well,they are simply returning the favor. It's one thing to judge within the church body but to do so outside in the secular realm is not what we are called to do.

I Corinthians 5:9-13
9 I wrote to you in a letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- 10 by no means referring to this world's immoral people, or to the greedy and swindlers, or to idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world. 11 But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a reviler, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. 12 For what is it to me to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But God judges outsiders. Put away the evil person from among yourselves.HCSB

Exactly. That's again why I say if you're going to be a business then be a business and sell your goods. There will always be extremes. But we know that there are unsaved homosexuals, heterosexual fornicators, adulterers, etc, etc. Treat them with the love and respect with which we would treat Christ and prayerfully you'll plant a seed or get an opportunity to point them to the One Who saves.

The enemy wants to pit the Church against homosexuals because the enemy wants to see these people go to hell. He keeps giving the bait and we keep taking it.

Homosexuals are also liars and thieves and covetors and dishonorable towards their parents, forsaking of the Sabbath, and every other sin. We want them to be forgiven of ALL of their sin, not just the homosexual offense. The Church must not let the enemy keep making our relationships with this group of people about ONE sin.

 

[church mouse guy]

And all Planned Parenthood does is abortions so let's bake them a cake, too. And Michael Jackson wanted a special cake, too.

 

[Salty]

Here is AZ Senate Bill 1062

The Bill does NOT mention h0mosexuals- (hs)

Suppose a group hired a bakery (run by hs) to bake a big cake to celebrate the 5th anniverary of their anti-hs activity?

I wonder how the media would handle that?

 

[Yeshua1]

We can't be party to codifying legalized discrimination. That thinking went out with the Jim Crow laws. It puts us in the position of relegating gays to second-class citizens by being able to act against them legally for what the do. That's not the American way, never has been, never should be. Our Little Marxist Dictator is working his way toward enacting such laws against law abiding citizens of all stripes. We can use the same tactics he does.

isn't the basic truth though that the law would have provided a means for a christian business to NOT be coeereced and forced to taking gay business on, that it allowed for them to decide if they wante dto partake on religious grounds>

I understood it to mean that the christian restaurant HAD to still serve a gay couple, but could refuse to cater their wedding, by redusing to do business and condoning that as a valid wedding on religious grounds?

seems to be EXACTLY same as govt forcing christian businesses to give out free birth control, even if its against their relious beliefs!

IF that was what the law regulated, she should have signed it!

 

[church mouse guy]

Arizona was blackmailed by the NFL and the gay lobbies. No doubt Holder was making threats behind the scenes and Obama also. Liberals will bake a cake for anyone so they think that everyone bakes cakes with swastikas. As you suggest, Yeshua1, Obama is trying to make the Little Sisters of the Poor provide birth control against the tenants of Catholicism in spite of all of his promises that he would respect religious tradition.

Gays don't want a cake from Mom and Pop Bakery--they want to sue them and confiscate their business because they find sodomite weddings repulsive. Gays have a closed community with plenty of service of their own. They are very rich people and they get massive federal subsidies.

Someone should sue the Indianapolis Star newspaper for not carrying gay wedding news on their society page.

 

[annsni]

I wonder how a clearly homosexual printing business would feel about Westboro going in to get signs printed. Now they must - by law - print those signs. Or as someone said, a black owned bakery needing to bake a cake for a KKK event. I doubt they would.

Honestly, this has nothing to do with being gay. In each instance of a business being sued, the business owner happily served the gay community but it was the gay WEDDING that was the issue. So this whole "discriminating against gays" is not, in fact the truth.

Mark my words: churches will soon be involved in this. Churches will not be able to say "No, I'm sorry, I won't perform your wedding" because that will be discrimination. Some day, each of the pastors here will have to choose - weddings to all or weddings to none. I see that day coming. I really do.

 

[Aaron]

You're a bondservant for Christ. Stop worrying about what this world is trying to do to your rights. This world system belongs to the enemy. The enemy is supposed to treat you this way.

You'll "win" some and you'll "lose" some. Just don't lose focus of the real fight.:thumbs:

Wow. I get to use one of my favorite movie lines:

Keep your forked tongue behind your teeth.​

 

[Aaron]

For the rest of you, God has commanded us to speak up for the oppressed, and to rebuke the works of darkness. Zaac cares only to justify Sodom and indict God's elect.

 

[Zaac]

And all Planned Parenthood does is abortions so let's bake them a cake, too. And Michael Jackson wanted a special cake, too.

Again, if you're a cake business, and in the business of selling cakes and PP wants a cake, let them have it.

Cakes are sold to business clients all the time who are involved in things that are sinful. It would be different if your cake company says I endorse PP and am baking them a cake. To not endorse them and bake them a cake is about as harmless as Georgia Power providing electrical service to them.

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly. That's again why I say if you're going to be a business then be a business and sell your goods. There will always be extremes. But we know that there are unsaved homosexuals, heterosexual fornicators, adulterers, etc, etc. Treat them with the love and respect with which we would treat Christ and prayerfully you'll plant a seed or get an opportunity to point them to the One Who saves.

The enemy wants to pit the Church against homosexuals because the enemy wants to see these people go to hell. He keeps giving the bait and we keep taking it.

Homosexuals are also liars and thieves and covetors and dishonorable towards their parents, forsaking of the Sabbath, and every other sin. We want them to be forgiven of ALL of their sin, not just the homosexual offense. The Church must not let the enemy keep making our relationships with this group of people about ONE sin.

God wants us to love them, to get them the Gospel of jesus, but NOT to condone and accept their sinful lifestyles as now acceptable behaviour!

Satan has gotten the church in many quarters now saying you can be actively gay and saved to!

 

[Salty]

isn't the basic truth though that the law would have provided a means for a christian business to NOT be coeereced and forced to taking gay business on, that it allowed for them to decide if they wante dto partake on religious grounds> ...

Dont know about happy people - but the law would have allowed a business not to coeereced to break thier religious faith, regardless of the situation.

The law never once mentioned h0mosexuals.

What would Christians do if the govt passed a law to save energy by forbidding all but emergancy driving on Sunday.
Germany did that exact thing back in the 70's. Hmmmmmm

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, if you're a cake business, and in the business of selling cakes and PP wants a cake, let them have it.

Cakes are sold to business clients all the time who are involved in things that are sinful. It would be different if your cake company says I endorse PP and am baking them a cake. To not endorse them and bake them a cake is about as harmless as Georgia Power providing electrical service to them.

Do you really see the govt forcing christians to partake of illecit activities against our religious core beliefs as being 'no big deal?"

 

[church mouse guy]

Again, if you're a cake business, and in the business of selling cakes and PP wants a cake, let them have it.

Cakes are sold to business clients all the time who are involved in things that are sinful. It would be different if your cake company says I endorse PP and am baking them a cake. To not endorse them and bake them a cake is about as harmless as Georgia Power providing electrical service to them.

Zaac, you can bake the cakes for Planned Parenthood--they like a coat hanger for decoration on them--and Michael Jackson for his sick birthday parties--he likes them with money going to the parents.

Next, Zaac, you will be telling us that the SBC should marry gays so that they can have a church wedding.

And I bet you slander Pope Pius XII as Hitler's Pope, right?

 

[Yeshua1]

I wonder how a clearly homosexual printing business would feel about Westboro going in to get signs printed. Now they must - by law - print those signs. Or as someone said, a black owned bakery needing to bake a cake for a KKK event. I doubt they would.

Honestly, this has nothing to do with being gay. In each instance of a business being sued, the business owner happily served the gay community but it was the gay WEDDING that was the issue. So this whole "discriminating against gays" is not, in fact the truth.

Mark my words: churches will soon be involved in this. Churches will not be able to say "No, I'm sorry, I won't perform your wedding" because that will be discrimination. Some day, each of the pastors here will have to choose - weddings to all or weddings to none. I see that day coming. I really do.

Your post is exactly what is going on here!

the homosexual agenda and their allies in white house and in high places of spiritual darkness are seizng the moment to try to get all of us legisated for "proper behaviour"

And there will come a time where even preaching the gospel of Jesus will be seen as "judgemental and harmful", so will have to decide to obey the state of jesus!

was Nazi germany doing similiar junk in yeras before they went full blown Holocaust?

 

[Zaac]

isn't the basic truth though that the law would have provided a means for a christian business to NOT be coeereced and forced to taking gay business on, that it allowed for them to decide if they wante dto partake on religious grounds>

Again. This is stupid. Do Christian businesses not do business with sinners? The example Christ seems to set is for us to go out of our way to be kind and loving to these people as He did with the tax collectors and others. Would you refuse to sell water to a thristy "couple" just because they were gay?

I understood it to mean that the christian restaurant HAD to still serve a gay couple, but could refuse to cater their wedding, by redusing to do business and condoning that as a valid wedding on religious grounds?

You're a business. Sell to a paying customer and love on them. It may just show them that like Christ did for all of us, you are willing to look past their sin and see PEOPLE still in need of a Savior. A little love and kindness goes a long way in opening the door for folks to receive the Gospel.

Stop trying to win this stupid argument and just love people.