When did your ancestors come to America?
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Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signs immigration law 124 years after great-grandmother's jou
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
From your article....
"For now that she is governor, Brewer has signed an immigration bill that spits in Lady Liberty's face."
Brewer's grandmother immigrated legally.
Why do the libbies on the left have such trouble discriminating between legal and illegal immigration?
As to your question my ancestors where among the founders of Quebec. My great grandparents immigrated to the U.S legally.
"For now that she is governor, Brewer has signed an immigration bill that spits in Lady Liberty's face."
Brewer's grandmother immigrated legally.
Why do the libbies on the left have such trouble discriminating between legal and illegal immigration?
As to your question my ancestors where among the founders of Quebec. My great grandparents immigrated to the U.S legally.
Many people showed up at Ellis Island with no papers and today would be declared illegal. If they had a skill that was deemed good they were given papers with a big WOP stamped on them. WOP meant Without Papers.
So you are comparing apples and oranges. Totally different circumstances, totally different laws. Thus she probably is spitting in the face of lady liberty that the governors ancestor faced.
Certainly the ancestor did not have the threat of being challenged by any policeman who did not like the way she looked to prove she was legal. That is the real spitting into the face of liberty today.
What do you not understand about civil rights?
Do you have your great-grandparents papers proving they were legal ... realizing that is was very difficult to be illegal back then.
Crabby, you're making yourself look silly again.
You're either for the rule of law, or against it. Please pick one.
Yes, I am for the rule of law. However I am not in favor of laws that trample people's civil rights. Are you in favor of such laws?
Within this law is a provision ...
So, when you visit Arizona will you carry your papers to prove you are legal?
When did your ancestor arrive?
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
A few thoughts I have...
It doesn't matter how my ancestors got here, leagally or illegally. I was born in this country, as was my father and father's father. We are Americans.
This issue today is people come into this country illegally, how that impacts our nation, and either having laws regarding immigration or not.
I also think that compassion, mercy, and a love for the stranger that soujourns among us should govern our laws and policies.
I have listened to and read the law Arizona created. There does not seem to be anything wrong with that Law. It simply gives law enforcement the ability to determine whether someone is in this country legally or not.
I can't see at this point how that is wrong.
It doesn't matter how my ancestors got here, leagally or illegally. I was born in this country, as was my father and father's father. We are Americans.
This issue today is people come into this country illegally, how that impacts our nation, and either having laws regarding immigration or not.
I also think that compassion, mercy, and a love for the stranger that soujourns among us should govern our laws and policies.
I have listened to and read the law Arizona created. There does not seem to be anything wrong with that Law. It simply gives law enforcement the ability to determine whether someone is in this country legally or not.
I can't see at this point how that is wrong.
Nobody's civil rights are being violated. If one has not broken the law there will be no reason for one to be intimidated by this new law. I wish all of the states would adopt similar laws and bring back "Operation Wetback" from the days of Eisenhower's Administration.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
This bill bother's me in several ways. First, I've lived overseas in countries that every 20 km there was a road block with military personell asking to see your papers. And see the horrible consequences of such government Second, because despite the fact that my Father is a US citizen a veteran of the US army, spent 30 years working for the State Department as a loyal citizen and I being a veteran of the US Air Force, Participated in Panama and Desert Sheild/Storm, Currently and am still working for the government; I am of hispanic decent and if I were walking down a street in Arizona a LEO with out cause other ,than I look hispanic ,can embarrass me publicly and ask for my documents to prove that I am a US citizen. And what if I were jogging and didn't have my wallet with me as I can forget such things occassionally? Even though I have tons of documents showing I'm a US citizen everything from Birth certificate to DD214's to drivers lisence will I be put in Jail up to 6 months and finded $2400? Yeah. I support fortifying the boarder but I don't like this law. Its too reminisent of other socialist countries I've visited. And I believe its a first step to something worse.
By your reasoning, why should anybody have to carry a little card when they drive to "prove" they are legal drivers? Or a card when voting to prove they have the right to vote at that poll? And should law enforcement be forbidden from demanding anyone for identification to prove they are who they say they are? If these are infringements of "civil rights," we live in a moronic country, and it's no puzzle why there is not mention of us in Revelation-- we ain't gonna exist before it's all over.
OH, the Horror! I cannot imagine how in the world you could possibly rebound from being embarrassed. Everybody knows that in our new world society that no one, and I mean no one, should be subjected to embarrassment in any way, shape, form, or fashion!
I suppose that you should start being responsible, just like when you drive your automobile and make sure you have your driver's license.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
And I think You should consider Germany circa 1939. Since when has the Constitution of the United States allow for our liberties to be cast aside? It doesn't matter to you because this rulling doesn't affect you at all. What if all people had to stop at road blocks every 20 km to prove their citizenship? In fact are you biased against me because of my heritage? Though I've proven by my life that I am a US citizen and a responsible tax paying one at that.
So, that's what this whole argument is based on right there. A great big what if! Well you know the old saying, "If a frog had wings..."
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
People comng in thru Ellis Island were walking thru legally. They were not illegals. They were coming in and asking for the right to be here legally.
The illegal aliens this law addresses are not here trying to get in legally.
I understand that they want a better life and most are not involved in illegal activities after they are here. They send money back to family or work here to get money and then go back home to raise their standard of living in their home countries.
But they are still here illegally no matter how much I may understand why they came here in the first place. The law is designed to fix what the federal gov't has refused to even attempt to address.
The illegal aliens this law addresses are not here trying to get in legally.
I understand that they want a better life and most are not involved in illegal activities after they are here. They send money back to family or work here to get money and then go back home to raise their standard of living in their home countries.
But they are still here illegally no matter how much I may understand why they came here in the first place. The law is designed to fix what the federal gov't has refused to even attempt to address.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
No the argument is this. I am a US CITIZEN! I've Served this country for over 20 years! And my rights are being violated in that with "no cause" other than I look hispanic. Police are not even allowed to look in your car with out a warrent unless you give them permission or they have probable cause. Probable cause has never been they look like a certain race. I may have to be subject to interrogation and public humiliation based on my heritage.
I'm begining to think cutter you don't like hispanics. Even American Citizens eventhough we have given just as much to promote this country as everyone else.
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Seems you are resorting to the same tactics as Tiny. Here was my reply to him in another thread.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1543647&postcount=29
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
The fact that you didn't answer my question about how you would like it if this applied to everyone. They can stop you just because you look caucasian and look at your id with out cause. And because you ignored the fact that not only am I a US Citizen but a veteran of this country and that like you I have rights the same as you and they are being violated I can only assume you have an exception to my person that you can exclude yourself from. That exception has to be my racial heretage. Its very logical its not a tactic. You think its ok to violate my rights as a citizen based on my heretage. what else am I suppose to think?
I appreciate your opinion, but unfortunately and sadly, things like this become necessary because of the ones who will not obey the law. They are the ones you should be angry at, not the ones trying to solve an out of control problem.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
No. I blame the current administration and the short sitedness of the conservatives in Arizona. The administration refused to allow Arizona to send National Guard to the boarder. They have not supported the boarder with enough ICE guys to matter. This is done on purpose. The conservatives upset with lack of action on the national government are forced into passing laws such as this neo-nazi paper gazing SS type thing. What will happen is many US citizens like myself will be harrassed by LEO of Arizona and be dehuminized to such an extent that the hispanic community (the fasted growing community in the United States); will trend away from their normally conservative pro-family values and go democratic and liberal to do away with the injustice of loosing their civil american rights. Its been planned this way so that the democrates who are loosing ground will pick it up in november and maintain seats. And all these people are falling for it. American's should never stand together against the rights of other american citizens. Our history has shown us the folly of this.
And yet we see where many LEGALS, just as yourself, are in favor of this approach according to folks who ACTUALLY LIVE in the affected areas!!!
Explain that!!
Could it possibly be that you really have no concept of the problem that is being addressed??
Just askin'!!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Having spent time in countries with military regimes and curfues and road blocks I say I can predict the future based on these experiences. Those people are just as reactionist as anyone else. No one who is legal wants the illegal problems that exist but doing away with people's rights as americans is never a good policy. Remember Hitler didn't take over Germany in a day. He started off as the voice of reason, values, core conservative values that germans held dear. He used the people mistrust of the financial systems, jews, Roma illegals, etc... to pass laws that gave him more power and before long Nazis rulled germany with an iron hand and all rights were eventually taken away because of reactionism. Like this.