Arminianism another gospel?

[Iconoclast]

JamesL

Nothing makes sense? Scripture clearly states that every man will be raised - some to life, and some to punishment (John 5:28-29)

yes..everyone is raised from bodily physical death

And Romans 5:6 is not out of context,

it is speaking ...only of believers

because Paul was transitioning from the justification of the inner man - Having BEEN justified by faith, we HAVE peace with God. Keep reading to verses 9-11

Paul was speaking of the whole man.....nothing is saying he is focused on the "inner"man. In 2 cor he mentions the inner man as already having eternal life while the first body is still perishing.

Having BEEN justified by His blood, we SHALL BE saved from wrath (physical death) through Him...

wrath...does not equal physical death.....you add this gnostic thought here.
The wrath spoken of is second death.

much more, BEING reconciled (by His death), we SHALL BE "saved" (from physical death) by His LIFE (resurrection)

we are not saved from physical death James...this is wrong. You will physically die....you are already perishing physically right now.

Don't get tripped up over the word "saved", because it has a very broad meaning in scripture. It means much, much more than "saved from hell, going to heaven"

Aperson is saved from the practice of sin...

But, Paul has looked only at the believer so far through verse 11. In verse 12, he continues to ALL MEN who have died (physically) in Adam. And these same ALL MEN will be raised because of Christ.

You are going into error at this point. Adam died at the fall spiritually with physical death to follow.

Most error on BB and in the professing church happens right here. Once this is understood most of the error would go away....but some perpetuate the error.
Your post is already leaning toward that error.

Keep reading to verses 18-21, and notice that it has a universal ring to it.

No...not at all...it is very clearly two groups of people...those who remain dead in Adam and go into second death......then those who are declared to be righteous IN Christ.

Many commentators have misunderstood this "made righteous" on account of Christ, believing that it means made righteous in the inner man. But Paul has already concluded his treatment of the inner man, and has moved on to the resurrection of the outer man. This body we have now will be sown sinful, as it came that way from Adam

This is your own novelty that does not come from the text at all....Winman would be proud of this kind of reasoning. You know that is not a good sign.

But because of Christ's death and resurrection, the physical body of ALL MEN will be cleansed of sin. That is how the body of an unbeliever will endure the eternal punishment from God.

Physical resurrection happened before the cross...God can do what He will...this is part of your false idea.

Every person ever born will be raised in a sinless body because Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection (1Cor 15:23).

This is total fiction...who says anything about unbelievers getting a sinless body at all??? Unbelievers will never stop sinning even in hell. What makes them stop???

And for anyone to be raised, Christ had to die to atone for their corruptible body - He died for the ungodly, which is ALL of us

No...not at all:wavey:

 

[Yeshua1]

This is question beggeging, assuming your point as truth and the results of Christ dying for all stemming from your view.

Was every last drop of the Passover lamb's blood used?

You believe God will go an eternity unpaid for the transgressions committed against Him? Finite men paying an infinite penalty for eternity does just that, leaves Him eternally unpaid for the crimes against Him. The true judge of righteousness was eternally paid at Calvary when it was proclaimed it is finished. All sin, death and the curse were satisfied at that moment.

Just paid for the sakes of those who would get saved by Him though, correct? Not paid towards all?

 

[Yeshua1]

It's just another classic bogus Calvinist cliche argument, they all use it.

It would be like a Coast Guard cutter going to a small island with 100 people, and the Captain warning them that a major hurricane will hit in the next 24 hours, and offering to take everyone off the island safely.

50 people believe the Captain of the cutter and get on, the other half are stubborn and rebellious and refuse to get on. Finally the Captain realizes he must get underway to avoid the storm and leaves the stubborn folks behind. The storm overflows the island and drowns them all.

Was the Captain a failure? NO, he is a hero. It is not his fault that 50 people were stubborn and wouldn't listen. His ship was big enough to carry all 100 people to safety, but they passed it up.

How about the truth that ALL 100 are doomed to destruction, and that the Captain Himself throws the lasoo rope around 50 of them, saveing out hose whom he chose to?

 

[Winman]

How about the truth that ALL 100 are doomed to destruction, and that the Captain Himself throws the lasoo rope around 50 of them, saveing out hose whom he chose to?

So you believe God literally kidnaps persons against their will? He lassos them and forcibly drags them away?

Nice doctrine you've got there.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you believe God literally kidnaps persons against their will? He lassos them and forcibly drags them away?

Nice doctrine you've got there.

No, rather that the Lord sees all of us in the boat of rebellion, and that He intervenes and causes some of us to "jump ship", over to his side!

 

[webdog]

No sin will go unpaid for. Either Christ pays the debt, or the lost will.

Sin, death, and the curse was paid for for His sheep. The goats will pay for theirs in torment.

The lost can NEVER repay Him! A finite being in hell for an eternity does not pay an infinite penalty. That is why Christ was the only one who could make payment.

 

[Iconoclast]

webdog

The lost can NEVER repay Him!

That is why Jesus explained the worm shall not die, or the fire will never be quenched

A finite being in hell for an eternity does not pay an infinite penalty.

That is why they stay there still sinning and still paying the penalty forever:thumbsup:

That is why Christ was the only one who could make payment

.

yes...and as there is no second chance it becomes clear that THE COVENANT DEATH PAID FOR ALL THE SINS OF THE ELECT ALONE.

 

[webdog]

webdog


That is why Jesus explained the worm shall not die, or the fire will never be quenched


That is why they stay there still sinning and still paying the penalty forever:thumbsup:

.

yes...and as there is no second chance it becomes clear that THE COVENANT DEATH PAID FOR ALL THE SINS OF THE ELECT ALONE.

So in your justice system God never sees justice from the crimes committed against Him...and is ok with that? That is like you stealing a million dollars from my bank account and me agreeing it's just for you to repay me one penny a year for the rest of your life.

 

[Iconoclast]

webdog

So in your justice system God never sees justice from the crimes committed against Him...and is ok with that? That is like you stealing a million dollars from my bank account and me agreeing it's just for you to repay me one penny a year for the rest of your life.

In the biblical system That they remain in the realm of death and separated from the love of God is a severe enough penalty. That there are degrees of torment and punishment eternally inflicted on them will prove to be an exact punishment for the crime....they never can fully repay, they never have life.:wavey:

 

[convicted1]

The lost can NEVER repay Him!

They taste eternal death...eternal seperation from God. They pay for their sins eternally.

A finite being in hell for an eternity does not pay an infinite penalty.

Yes it does pay the penalty. God's wrath is appeased as no sin will go unpunished.

That is why Christ was the only one who could make payment.

Christ paid the debt His sheep owed. He took their curse, their condemnation, their shame, their sin, and bore it in His flesh on the cross. He was an actual propitiation for them. He was/is their/our surety. :thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

So in your justice system God never sees justice from the crimes committed against Him...and is ok with that? That is like you stealing a million dollars from my bank account and me agreeing it's just for you to repay me one penny a year for the rest of your life.

Do you hold to the lost being forever destroyed after their GWT day?

And ternal seperation from God, with eternal consequences means the payment is made...

 

[webdog]

Do you hold to the lost being forever destroyed after their GWT day?

And ternal seperation from God, with eternal consequences means the payment is made...

No. Man has a beginning, God doesn't. Man can never repay God for an eternity in Hell. He'll isn't a pawn shop or an eternal community service. It's punishment for disbelief...not a payment for anything.

 

[webdog]

They taste eternal death...eternal seperation from God. They pay for their sins eternally.







Yes it does pay the penalty. God's wrath is appeased as no sin will go unpunished.







Christ paid the debt His sheep owed. He took their curse, their condemnation, their shame, their sin, and bore it in His flesh on the cross. He was an actual propitiation for them. He was/is their/our surety. :thumbsup:

Wrong, it is impossible to pay that penalty! Don't you get it...Christ paid the penalty for sin. If His death only appeased the wrath against the alleged "sheep", all creation but them are still under Gods wrath and will never be redeemed. We know from the Bible that is not the case, all creation groans in anticipation of redemption.

 

[Rippon]

Christ paid the penalty for sin. If His death only appeased the wrath against the alleged "sheep",

Yes Christ's death only satisfied the wrath of God for the elect alone.

all creation but them are still under Gods wrath and will never be redeemed. We know from the Bible that is not the case, all creation groans in anticipation of redemption.

I am not quite following your line of thought.

Because of the sin of mankind the universe is under the curse of God -- the deterioration of all things. The universe or 'creation' was subjected to corruption and futility but it will lead to that day when it will be redeemed from all the consequences of sin.

 

[webdog]

Yes Christ's death only satisfied the wrath of God for the elect alone.



I am not quite following your line of thought.

Because of the sin of mankind the universe is under the curse of God -- the deterioration of all things. The universe or 'creation' was subjected to corruption and futility but it will lead to that day when it will be redeemed from all the consequences of sin.

All creation would be subjected to the curse still if universal atonement weren't true. Christ's death reversed the curse on all creation.

 

[preacher4truth]

Wrong, it is impossible to pay that penalty! Don't you get it...Christ paid the penalty for sin. If His death only appeased the wrath against the alleged "sheep", all creation but them are still under Gods wrath and will never be redeemed. We know from the Bible that is not the case, all creation groans in anticipation of redemption.

So you're a universalist. Rob Bell, Cleveland version.

 

[webdog]

Yes Christ's death only satisfied the wrath of God for the elect alone.



I am not quite following your line of thought.

Because of the sin of mankind the universe is under the curse of God -- the deterioration of all things. The universe or 'creation' was subjected to corruption and futility but it will lead to that day when it will be redeemed from all the consequences of sin.

So you're a universalist. Rob Bell, Cleveland version.

Nope, you are just a question bigger...

 

[convicted1]

Wrong, it is impossible to pay that penalty! Don't you get it...Christ paid the penalty for sin. If His death only appeased the wrath against the alleged "sheep", all creation but them are still under Gods wrath and will never be redeemed. We know from the Bible that is not the case, all creation groans in anticipation of redemption.

Sin is paid for in either the Sinbearer or the sinner. Christ paid the sheep's sin debt in full, taking God's wrath in their/our stead. The wrath of God will be poured out upon them when the goats are resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[webdog]

Sin is paid for in either the Sinbearer or the sinner. Christ paid the sheep's sin debt in full, taking God's wrath in their/our stead. The wrath of God will be poured out upon them when the goats are resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.

The sin bearer CAN NOT pay! God is eternally UNPAID in your system.

 

[InTheLight]

Sin is paid for in either the Sinbearer or the sinner. Christ paid the sheep's sin debt in full, taking God's wrath in their/our stead.

Yes, when Jesus said, "It is finished".

The wrath of God will be poured out upon them when the goats are resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.

Where the "worm dies not and the fire is not quenched". Where the sinner is in torment for eternity. So if the sinner's sin is paid for in Hell, and Hell is eternal, when is the sin fully paid for? One second into the lake of fire? One day? One thousand years? When?