Arminianism

The thing that surprised me about Timothy's
statement was that Ii heard the Very Same
Things in Arminian circles, said of Calvinists!
Uusing Timothy's statement, their point of view
is:

"[Calvinism] often produces a false gospel via
the quick decision approach to evangelizing that
many today use. . . Untold thousands . . . have
been deceived by well meaning folk who have
presented the "sinners prayer" and the quick
decision as the key to eternal life. The saddest
picture that I can think of is these people
someday standing before God to only hear 'I
never knew you.'"

We were taught that the typical repeat-after-me
"sinner's prayer" and the "'quick decision" were
Calvinist inventions. Wrong? We were also told
that most Calvinists would be the ones to hear,
"I never knew you; depart!"

 

That's not Arminianism at all. It's more akin to Pelagism. I'm sorry you got caught up in that.

 

Abiyah,

What you have described sounds like a "holiness" branch of Arminianism. As such, I don't think it really represents mainstream Arminianism at all.

Here is a chart of the differences between the two schools of thought. Be aware that this chart is made up by Calvinists, and perhaps is biased in that direction.

Calvinism vs Arminianism

I might add that not all Arminians believe salvation can be lost.

I think the real dividing line has to do with predestination (or election) and what it is based on. Did God know beforehand that you would chose to say yes to the gospel, and because of this prior knowledge elect you; or did He elect you based only upon his own purposes, and not based on anything he foresaw that you would do?

There is another simpler chart out there, but I can't find it. If I do, I will post it, okay?

Feel free to ask me any questions, either here or through my PM's. I promise I will try to be as unbiased as I can.

 

Here is the simpler chart.

 

Thank you for the charts! The first was very
readable and informative, but I will have to wait
until I switch computer systems (soon!) to read
the latter. I have a LOT to learn. 8o)

Please Note My Correction!!

That's not Arminianism at all. It's more akin to Pelagism.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I will need to find out what that term means.

It was a holiness group. So holiness groups are
actually on the extremist end of Aarminianism?
Are there Arminians who believe that people sin
but do not lose their salvation because of it?
Example: suppose, as did happen to me, I learn
later in life that I did not have a grasp of real
honesty. I realize that I had lied, lived a lie, acted
lies, led people to believe lies, etc. What would
be the Arminian take on that?

 

And there are still other Armianians who believe that once a person chooses to accept Christ, God completely changes that person's nature, making it impossible to "lose" one's salvation.

I think we all go through spiritual journeys. Our viewpoint on things changes as we learn more about the Bible and as we listen to the Holy SPirit. I went from Calvinism to Arminianism, and I am still on a journey. I await the rest of the ride!

 

Primitive Baptist what I was refering to was that the comment was made that those who were deceived of the millions would stand at the judgement bar of Christ and he would say I never knew you. Would you touch that?... I won't!

The Arminian, Calvin and Primitive Baptist brethren mixed in with all Gods children will get to heaven only one way... By the Living Gospel of Jesus Christ... The crucifiction... death... burial and resurrection of the Son of God... Read John 5: 39... And embrace the joy of your Salvation... All will be saved alike!... Ephesians 2: 1... "GOD WILL SAVE ALL HIS CHILDREN"... Brother Glen

 

My concept of a false Gospel is one in which the witness speaks about some of the Gospel, but not enough to lead a sinner to Christ. Many of the members of modernist churches who are into only 'the social gospel' do not really know Jesus personally. I think both saved Calvinists and Arminians know enough to relate the true Gospel to sinners.

I am aware of some of the excesses, by way of ideas, that some Wesleyans and Nazarenes get caught up in within those congregations. This is especially true nearer to their training centers. (Bible Schools & seminaries). I know a Nazarene Church in the northeast of New York State that has a pastor with a Baptist background. This church is not as rigid as it was thirty years ago.

I used to believe that a Christian could fall from grace, but after mega years of study, believe
that God keeps forever those who are born of the Spirit. Some Christians backslide but the Lord will deal with them. [Hebrews 12:5 & I Corinthians 11:30]

I personally, believe in the first four tenants of Arminian theology and one that Calvinists believe, which is the 'perfect security of the believer, or eternal security.'

My suggestion for you is to not jump into one theological, camp or another; take four years of serious Bible study and then you will find your belief structure coming together.

Sincerely,

Ray Berrian, Th.D.

 

by SonofCoffeeman (curious handle, that. no offense intended

The only human being God ever gave free will, and therefore, choice, to, with regards eternal life
was Adam. And you know he blew it.
Commands to do good and choose life were for blessings or curses in this time line, not for eternal salvation, and most of these were to those who were His.
Believers are given the choice to obey God's principles and commandments and reap specific blessings, or curses if they choose to disobey
(Read Deuteronomy).
However, there are also general principles in the Bible, specially in Proverbs, which, when applied,
may result in common blessings, like hardwork, or respect for elders, rulers, or the shunning of adulterous relationships.
But these blessings and salvation are for this plane we call time, not for eternal salvation.

 

Primitive Baptist I'm not going to argue with my Primitive Baptist brethren!... "God WILL save ALL his ELECT blood bought children"!... That is all I need to know!... Brother Glen

 

But, PB, there are also those among the Electionist brethren who can argue the doctrine of Election brilliantly and yet lack the same "fruits of repentance" you seem to be looking for in the Arminian professors.
My point is that "known unto God are all His works from the beginning" means exactly that.
Some months ago, I mentioned a former communist assassin who came to Christ with no human leading and now pastors a small church south of my country. He is of the Arminian persuasion, but looking at him now, you would hardly believe this man was once a hardened killer who would kill at 7a.m. and calmly eat breakfast at 7:05 a.m.
On the other hand, I know of someone who went from Arminian to Calvinism back to Arminianism and is now Buddhist !!

 

It's not at issue. The point is that man chooses. The specifics of how they choose is irrelevant for this point. The fact is that they choose.

No you can't say that because hypercalvinists still believe that God chooses. I disagreee with them as much as I disagree with you and as much as you might disagree with a pelagian. However, there are still only two groups.

Because that is the broad generic name that has been attacked to it.

Irrelevant since they are not even in a discussion about soteriology.

 

Matthew 12:20 will take some of the judgmental attitude out our hearts and lives. God speaking through Matthew said, 'A bruised reed shall he not break, and a smoking flax shall He not quench. . . ' The Lord is much more patient with His people than we are, I think.

I John 2 will guide us on how to think and deal with 'little children' in the faith. The Apostle John calls them,'teknon'--little children. One Greek scholar believes the meaning to be, 'newly born ones in Christ.

All who sincerely pray the sinner prayer will be saved; otherwise, why would God have said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.' Also, John 5:24 . . .

 

Brother Ray,

Out of curiosity, do you believe that praying the sinner's prayer, or something similar to it, is necessary for salvation? Would that be similar to "walking the aisle" that many Baptist churches use.

Ken

 

I have had people saved sitting in their pew while hearing me preach. The hearing of the Word of truth is what leads to faith and adoption. It does not matter if we are walking, sitting or lying down when we do business with God. He is interested in our sincerity, repentance, and looks for our trust in His saving benefits accomplished on the Cross.

Rev., Dr. Billy Graham used to say, 'Everyone that Jesus called-- He called publicly.' What do you think about this statement?

 

You still miss the point. The issue is about more than choice.

So what if I'm talking about those who determine whether God spcifically damns people. I can say that there are Hyper-Calvinists who believe that God damns people, and the rest who are Arminian, since Arminians are one group that doesn't eblieve it.

For that matter, why didn't you say, "Calvinists and Pelagians" or "Calvinists and Open Theists." There are more groups than just Arminians who believe man has the opportunity to choose.

The name Pelagians has been used much longer - why not use that. If this is your only basis for doing so, it seems that it is a mark of either laziness or an attempt to slander.

So if I'm not discussing soteriology, I can use the term Calvinists to group any group I want that fits? Very well...

 

Excellent, Brother Ray. I agree 100% with your last post.

Ken

 

Brother Ken Hamilton,

Thanks! Your thoughts are duly noted.

Ray