Arminianisms

[Rippon]

This is from a J.I.Packer chapter in a book called " Through Christ's Word " . ( pages 144,145 )

All Arminianisms start from a rationalistic hermeneutic which reads into the Bible at every point the philosophic axiom that to be responsible before God man's acts must be contingent in relation to him . All Arminianisms involve a rationalistic restriction of the sovereignty of God and the efficacy of the cross , a restriction which Scripture seems directly to contradict . All Arminianisms involve a measure of synergism ...

The Bible forbids us to take a single step along the Arminian road .It clearly affirms the positions which Dort highlighted : God's absolute sovereignty ; human responsibility without any measure of contingency or indeterminacy ( look at Acts 2:23 ! ) ; and a direct connection between the work of Christ in obtaining and applying redemption . The very name of Jesus is itself an announcement that " he shall save his people from their sins " ( Matt. 1:21 ). It does not tell us that He will make all men savable , but that He will actually save those who are His . And it is in these terms that the Bible speaks throughout .

If we travel the Arminian road , there are three precious things that we necessarily lose . These are : the clear knowledge of God's sovereignty in our salvation , the clear sight of Christ's glory as the Savior of His people , and the clear sense of the Christian's eternal security in the covenant of grace .

 

[Me4Him]

The very name of Jesus is itself an announcement that " he shall save his people from their sins " ( Matt. 1:21 ). It does not tell us that He will make all men savable , but that He will actually save those who are His . And it is in these terms that the Bible speaks throughout .

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"IF" we travel the "Calvinist road", we lose sight of the "AGAPE LOVE" of God to redeem every sin of every soul he ever created,

and a failure to clearly/properly understanding the scripture's explaination of not only what God expects from "MAN" before he'll save, (Faith) but also what will prevent "MAN" from being saved. (Unbelief)


The "Plan of salvation" is the "Sovereign will" of God, and nothing can/will occur outside that "will" except "Sovereignty" be relinquished in that area, (chose whom ye will serve)

The "Declaration of God's Love" and "Jesus's Mission" to redeem all sins can't be correctly explained in the context of "Sovereign will" and EVEN ONE PERISHING.

 

[Rippon]

Oh no , I have been John 3:sixteened again ! You need to check out some old threads regarding the multiple uses of " world " in the Bible .

If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

Please check out Matthew Henry for 2 Peter 3:9 while you are at it for starters .

Does election mean choosing everyone to you MFH ?

An important note -- God does not relinguish His sovereignty in ANY area .

 

[Humblesmith]

I especaially like the Rom. 5:18 quote....are we to believe that "all" means two very different things in the same sentence?

Delegating a degree of freedom and responsibility does not restrict sovereignty, not in the slightest.

 

[webdog]

If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

This is like saying if I pay for everyone's dinner in a restaurant, I will see to it that everyone MUST eat their dinner, or if I bought you a present, since it's paid for, you MUST accept it or I will force it on you. Two separate things. Payment and result of payment are separate things.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

This is like saying if I pay for everyone's dinner in a restaurant, I will see to it that everyone MUST eat their dinner, or if I bought you a present, since it's paid for, you MUST accept it or I will force it on you. Two separate things. Payment and result of payment are separate things. </font>[/QUOTE]I wonder how many "Christmas GIFTS" are "Trash-canned" because it wasn't what they "WANTED"??

 

[partialrapture]

1John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

?is the whole world here every single person in the world?
NO

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world how can the whole world lie in wickedness if he has saved all?

This is easy for you deceived souls to see if you would just reason it out.

Jesus has paid the price for all but they can not receive that payment until they believe.
not try hard, bring forth fruit or any of that just believe and when a lost sinner does that on his own free will, we can then say what Peter did...

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

He has been elected from the foundation of the world because God knew that he would one day believe on Jesus. Not because he, for whatever reason favoured him more than another, but he met the condition of being the elect "BELIEVE"
and since God knew all before it happen he says I chose he or she because he or she shall believe.

May God bless

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by partialrapture:
1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

May God bless [/QB]

I "foreknow" everyone will leave Church after the services are over, but it wasn't my "predestine will" that made them leave, but "Their will".

There's a world of differences between "knowing what will happen", and "predestine it to happen".

 

[partialrapture]

ok... I think I agree but whats your point

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by Rippon:
Oh no , I have been John 3:sixteened again ! You need to check out some old threads regarding the multiple uses of " world " in the Bible .

If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

Please check out Matthew Henry for 2 Peter 3:9 while you are at it for starters .

Does election mean choosing everyone to you MFH ?

An important note -- God does not relinguish His sovereignty in ANY area .

Mathew Henry was a Calvinist. There's nothing like using someone who agrees with you to prove your point.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

This is like saying if I pay for everyone's dinner in a restaurant, I will see to it that everyone MUST eat their dinner, or if I bought you a present, since it's paid for, you MUST accept it or I will force it on you. Two separate things. Payment and result of payment are separate things. </font>[/QUOTE]That would be really good if it made sense.

Nobody had to WANT or accept a sacrifice personally. Nobody said "I don't accept that lamb's blood for me" when animal sacrifices were in place. It was God's place to accept or reject it.

The blood sacrifice was given, accepted by God if appropriate, and those it was sacrificed for were forgiven and cleansed.

It was the same with Christ, only it was permanent.
Christ's blood was not shed in vain for those who had not, did not, and would not believe.
How could it have been? It wasn't a suspended sacrifice. There are no scriptural grounds, no reasons given to make one believe that when it is said that his blood was the purchase price, that nothing was purchased, or that everyone was bought on credit and if they didn't prove good enough, they'd be returned to their father the devil. Neither is it said that that some were bought, and the rest have to do something to make themselves worthy to be bought.

What we are told is that it's a done deal. The sacrifice was made, God accepted it, and at the end, Christ will gather together those that he purchased.

 

[partialrapture]

"Christ's blood was not shed in vain for those who had not, did not, and would not believe."

Gina this the most wicked thing I have read in a while, do you have any scripture to back your conclusion

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ died for all... should be no problems so far but that does not mean all are saved. The opportunity for all to be saved is there they just need to believe in the finished work of Christ.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Amen Gina L

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rippon:
Oh no , I have been John 3:sixteened again ! You need to check out some old threads regarding the multiple uses of " world " in the Bible .

If Christ paid for the sins of everyone ; everyone is saved . Everyone is not , and will not be saved , therefore universal salvation is a myth .

Please check out Matthew Henry for 2 Peter 3:9 while you are at it for starters .

Does election mean choosing everyone to you MFH ?

An important note -- God does not relinguish His sovereignty in ANY area .

Mathew Henry was a Calvinist. There's nothing like using someone who agrees with you to prove your point. </font>[/QUOTE]I really have only one comment on this post. Specifically on:

There's nothing like using someone who agrees with you to prove your point.

In His grace,
Ed

 

[johnp.]

Hello Rippon.

Oh no , I have been John 3:sixteened again !

Cool man. God is Sovereign.

I "foreknow" everyone will leave Church after the services are over, but it wasn't my "predestine will" that made them leave, but "Their will".

Not in my first Church man, they left when I told them, I was the caretaker.

There's a world of differences between "knowing what will happen", and "predestine it to happen".

That's probably why God says He predestines. But with God, He knows because He brings it to be.

Thanks for the Amen reformedbeliever and I'll second your one to Gina L.

Good old Mathew Henry, don't hear his name mentioned much. But to not look at his work is to dismiss what he has to say without reason.

john.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Gina L:
Christ's blood was not shed in vain for those who had not, did not, and would not believe.
How could it have been? [/QB]

God/Jesus, having made it possible for the whole world to be saved, "JUSTIFIES" God condemning the "Unbelievers", they have "NO EXCUSE" for remaining sinners.

The "PARDON", having been offer to "ALL" justifies God to condemn those who rejected it, in this respect, God is no respecter of persons in/with his Judgment, he only passes Judgement according to the "Choice" we've made.

"Chose you whom ye will serve" is also "YOUR CHOICE" of your final destination, that's what the gospel is "ALL ABOUT", "except ye be born again".

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Predestination denies that we have a "CHOICE" and our final destination is determined by our choice, Salvation is offered to all, but not all accept it.

Predestination also denies that "WE" are "Required" to have "FAITH" before God will save, but our belief/unbelief is the reason God does/doesn't save.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In dying for the sins of the whole world, Jesus's death not only "JUSTIFIED" the "Believers", but also "JUSTIFIED" the "CONDEMNATION" of the "UN-believers".

"IF" salvation had not been offer to "ALL", "JUSTICE" could not be served.

 

[johnp.]

Predestination also denies that "WE" are "Required" to have "FAITH" before God will save, but our belief/unbelief is the reason God does/doesn't save.

One is saved by grace man. Eph 2:8.

john.

 

[webdog]

...through faith, man!

...and that (salvation) is a gift from God.

 

[johnp.]

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved...

Deny it all you like I believe the scriptures.

john.

 

[webdog]

You falsely accuse me again. Finish the verse, it doesn't end there...even though you wish it did.