Arminians, Open Theists, and Jehovah's Witnesses?

This is a link to a site that deals with Open Theism:

Click here

This is certainly not exhaustive. A brief examination of the site Baptist Believer linked demonstrates their need to be accepted as Christian. Most assuredly, they are not. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm… It’s okay if I don’t take your word on it. (I assume that you don’t think you’re infallible.)

Be careful. I happen to think you are redefining God.

 

What is so funny or sad about it?

The idea that God takes a “risk” by allowing free will and real consequences for human actions or that God works all things together for His purposes in spite of faulty human decisions?

The only people I can see who would have a problem with this statement are Five-Point Calvinists (yes, I know you are one). But I’m sure you also recognize that there are true believers who are not Five-Point Calvinists and people who hold to Five-Point Calvinism who are not true believers.

 

Pam,

Please read what each side has to say about itself before you read what the critics say about it. That way you will be able to approach the criticism from a perspective of knowledge and understanding.

Investigate Open Theism by reading what Open Theists have to say and then reading their critics. Investigate Five-Point Calvinism by reading what they have to say and then read their critics.

Five-Point Calvinists have mercilessly attacked Open Theism because it is not compatible with their belief system. But lots of Christians are not Five-Point Calvinists because they don’t believe Five-Point Calvinism is compatible with biblical teaching.

Just because Open Theism is incompatible with Five-Point Calvinism does not necessarily mean that it is incompatible with what the Bible teaches.

 

How so? Is it because I believe he works within his own dictated parameters. </font>[/QUOTE]By so dogmatically asserting that Open Theists are not true believers.

Also much of my critique was based on my mistaken notion that you are a 5-Point Calvinist.

 

It is tragic that people have a God that depends upon man to know what to do. </font>[/QUOTE]God does not “depend” upon humankind for anything. Instead, God is in an interactive relationship with humankind which involves both initiative and response.

God knows His own intents and purposes and is not concerned about events that have not been created yet. The Open Theism model of God has no doubt about God’s ability to act independently of humankind or to take complete initiative and mold human events in His perfect will.

Open Theism asserts that the future does not exist yet, but God and humankind is creating “the future” every moment. To an Open Theist, “time” is simply a sequence of events and God is acting within this moment to bring about the future and resolving the past.

God is not “merely” anything…

Certainly God “risks” in His condescension to have a love relationship with humankind, but God is certainly “in charge” of all cosmic events and will exercise Divine prerogatives when necessary to bring to pass His will.

 

I don't know why you think I am, but I am not a 5 point calvinist. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmm… I’ve made a serious mistake here. I came to believe you were a 5-pointer because of your constant references to “Arminians”. I’m sorry about the false assumption I made.

I do as well. (So do Open Theists, although 5-pointers love to say that they don’t.)

I would gladly work with persons who hold the same views of foreknowledge as those mentioned.

I consider all human models of time to be faulty and/or incomplete. If we knew what time is and how it “works”, we would easily be able to determine if Open Theism or 5-Point Calvinism is more accurate. (Open Theism assumes a highly-dynamic view of time, history and God while 5-Point Calvinism assumes a nearly static view of time, history and God.)

I consider all human models of God to be faulty and/or incomplete – this includes Open Theism. My personal beliefs about God are very similar to Open Theism (I’ve had these views for many years, so I’m not following a theological fad), but I find what I have read of Open Theism a little weak on the issue of time and providence. I also seem to have a more highly defined view of foreknowledge than some of the Open Theist proponents, but I’m still reading up on the view, so that may not be accurate.

 

BB, I am surprised at your apparent lack of knowledge in this area. Arminians do not deny that God knows the future and what will actually take place. Many arminians today are closer to open theism than historic arminianism.</font>[/QUOTE]Here’s one of the reasons I have confused you with a Five-pointer… Who are these “Arminians” you are talking about? I can’t discuss the beliefs of “Arminians” unless I know who they are. What are you if you are not an Arminian or a Five-pointer? A Modified Calvinist perhaps?

Yes. People reject Open Theism for many different reasons. Lots of folks have heard Open Theism misrepresented and others disagree with the views of time and God that Open Theism assumes and presents. Others take great comfort in the idea that God knows the future instead of trusting that God will bring about the future. It is inherently harder to trust the character and person of God than a theological concept of preordination.

No, not many of them.

I am not saying that all non-5-pointers embrace Open Theism, but rather that Open Theism and Five-Point Calvinism are incompatible. Therefore much of the hostility toward Open Theism does indeed come out of the Calvinist camp.