Arminians using Calvinist solutions for OSAS

we must distinguish between assurance of our present state of grace and acceptance in God by the Spirit, which I belive, and a carnal assurance based upon false doctrine that says 'i'm ok no matter what'.

RC - agree with you, though ugghhhh - I have a hard time stomaching that name Jonathan Edwards the Enligtenment philosopher/ calvinist syncretistic theologian. If i was still a calvinist i would be with the homegrown Particular Baptists who refused to compromise with worldly philosophy.

 

There is but one assurance of salvation, and that is the individual's faith in God! Only those who have faith in God when they die the natural death, receive Salvation through faith!

The scriptures are replete with warnings to those who believed the message and responded with faith, to "Persevere to the end", "keep the faith, baby", and so on.

Well what happens to those who do not persevere to the end? Do they receive salvation if they have not faith in God when they die?

Show me the scripture that says they do receive salvation in spite of their lacking faith.

 

A Faith that Fizzles at the Finish had a Flaw from the First.

Just thought I'd throw in this little ditty.

 

Not true! The father of lies constantly bombards the faithful with his lies. A lie heard often enough weakens the resolve of the faithful. If one continues in sin, and does so with false impunity or thinking that he/she is getting away with something, they too run the risk of losing their faith. Those who fail to stay in the word, run great risk of falling away from the faith.

Sin is such a pervasive deceiver, and deception is often easily believed TOO! Many a good person of faith has fallen away from the faith due to major trajedies in their lives, such as loss of lifemate, loss of child for some unexplainable reason, loss of resources, loss of health, loss of occupation, etc. According to scriptures, the faith they had was sufficient to salvation, they simply did not persevere to the end in that faith!

We all know people who have abandoned their faith, and we instead of doing something about it, look at them with pity in our hearts for them. Many of them could be reclaimed if we but cared for them.

So, Hardsheller, you are quite simply wrong about faith! IT CAN BE LOST!

 

Can't answer your question, but as a Christian I disagree with OSAS on the basis of what I just told Hardsheller!

 

All it takes to understand is to look at the reality of living Christian life among the unbelievers. Turn your TV on and see life reflected before your very eyes! Look at all the temptation, thousands of events every hour right before your eyes. Take a walk on the wild side on evening, and see for yourself the bombardment of lies one is subjected to daily.

If you cannot see then how easy it would be to slip, then slip again, and again until you go down for the final count, you simply are not seeing the truth!

What does the church provide to compete against those attractive lies?

I know the answer, but those who are seduced by the lies do not know. How is the church going to reach them?

The Calvinist would say those who are predestined to be save will be saved.

The Scriptures say "take my gospel to them, those who hear and believe will be saved, those who hear and don't believe will not be saved."

 

Bob,
I have just as much assurance as you do. And you DO NOT have as much for the future or the same at best. I believe I am saved and will persevere because I am in Christ and my salvation rests in Him.

You on the other hand rely on your "choices" which are very fickle at best. You have no assurance at all.

 

There are three groups that deal with the issue, those who are OSAS, those who don't know, and those like myself that disagree with the principle of OSAS.
The relative percentages are
OSAS=22% (includes the Pastor from a Calvinst Seminary)
Don't knows=45%
Don't agrees= 33%

 

About 22% of Christians know their Bible !

 

rc...you have no assurance at all.

Jesus talks about those whom the Father said He never knew. They thought they were saved. According to Calvinism nobody can even come to Christ, nor would they want to apart from the Holy Spirit. So I ask you...how could these people even make this mistake if Calvinism were true? And if they could...who says you aren't making the same mistake? You have no assurance. None at all.

 

I can ask the same question to you !

Those are the poor ignorant people who haven't been regenerated but believe in the lie that they are counting on something they DID !!!

Like, say a prayer... walked and aisle, confessed publically ... CHOSE !! Yet Jesus said the same WORD He said to the NON ELECT

I Never KNEW you...
My sheep hear my voice, and I KNOW them, and they follow me.

Those WHOM (personal) He forKNEW, He predestined....

ALL THE SAME.. active VERB!

The elect he knows... everyone else He doesn't know.

 

"Those are the poor ignorant people who haven't been regenerated but believe in the lie that they are counting on something they DID !!!"

Au contraire...since you missed the logic I will explain it. Those people can't even BELIEVE they were regenerated because according to Calvinism, nobody can come to Christ nor do they WANT to apart from the Holy Spirit's intervention. So those people wouldn't even WANT to nor COULD they!!!

My conclusion stands...you have no assurance because you don't truly know if you are God's elect...that is...if Calvinism is true. I, on the other hand, have assurance because I know that God loves me and desires for me to be saved.

 

According to Calvinism!

 

I might add, that 85% of those who attend church regularly carry their personal, well marked bibles to church with them.

...and yes, there are animated discussions about OSAS on a regular schedule.

 

KJ,
Your argument is turned on its head.

It's not about knowing your saved, I KNOW I am saved. And with that I also know that Christ WILL never let me lose my salvation because it is He that keeps it. My trust is in the promise of Christ!

You on the other hand puts your trust in your "choice". Your salvation depends on your fickle day to day "feelings" of being saved. If you choose one day for Christ, you can easily "choose" one day to NOT follow Christ. You are the one who has the fragile salvation because it is founded on man not Christ.