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Arminius on Calvin

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Plus he knows that.....Sometimes he writes early in the morning when he is tired.
     
    #61 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 10, 2011
  2. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    I guess the OP is about John Calvin and not Calvism.

    I read the scripture and at times I do use commentaries and other writings to help me put some things into perspective.

    However, I do not use John Calvin as an only authority in any subject.
    John Calvin believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. That in itself is such a simple misunderstanding of scripture that I could not take him as a serious theologian. I am not saying Calvin was always wrong but he was wrong enough not to be taken as an only source for commentary.
     
    #62 John Toppass, Jun 11, 2011
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Not FROM the Bible- of the Bible.

    You are a man of the Word.

    I am a man of the Word.

    "man of the Bible" simply means one who was proficient in Scripture.

    Just as we would use the phraseology "man of science" or "man of medicine".
     
    #63 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    [insults edited out]

    I OBVIOUSLY, and any intelligent person could see it, meant "man of the bible" the same way we mean "man of science".

    It simply means one who is proficient in that area.

    I intended to write it just the way I did- I was certain that no one was ignorant enough to take that to mean "a character from the Bible."

    But to combine such ignorance with such arrogance is startling.

    ...........................................................................................


    Now pay attention folks. I'LL be the one to get the reprimand.
     
    #64 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2011
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Luke,I know what you meant. But it looked like you were saying Calvin was one of the greatest men of the Bible,because..you actually said it.

    To have said that Calvin was one of the greatest teachers/expositors/preachers/commentators of the Bible would not have caused confusion. Disagreement,for sure,but no confusion.
     
    #65 Rippon, Jun 11, 2011
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I hope you don't mind that I adjusted some of your wording.

    No Calvinist here ever suggested that one should only consult John Calvin's works. Some Calvinists here claim to have read little to nothing of Calvin's works. So you are not speaking realistically.

    But for you to say that John Calvin should not be taken seriously as a theologian is just silly on your part. Scholarly friends and foes of his theology would insist most stridently that he should be taken very seriously as a theologian. His friend Philip Melancthon even dubbed him "The Theologian"
     
    #66 Rippon, Jun 11, 2011
  7. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    God is no respecter of persons

    Jesus told Nicodemus(a master theologian) that he must be born again to enter the kingdom--not by becoming a better theologian. Nicodemus had not a clue. John Ch. 3.

    "not by acts of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us..."

    There is only one deserving of all praise, honor and glory: Jesus the Christ. Anything else is vainglory.

    Peace,

    Bro. James
     
    #67 Bro. James, Jun 11, 2011
  8. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Luke, Luke, Luke, any INTELLIGENT person could see that I was razzing Rip by mocking his earlier response to me. Quit ur whining…

    It is OBVIOUS you intended to write it just the way you did, and it is OBVIOUS you ELEVATE the MAN and HIS SYSTEM and have been SPOILED in the PROCESS. (Col 2:8)

    I understand that you intend to be INSULTING to others by referring to a “NO-NAME THEOLOGY” which shows where YOUR ALLEGIANCES lie.

    That is WHY I point out your and other Calvinist’ ERRORS in ARROGANTLY and PROUDLY worshipping a system.

    I know the comparison of the way you value YOUR SYSTEM to the thoughts and methods of the Pope and the Catholic church hits you close to home:


    But if combining the STING from this truth and revealing your methods through mocking STARTLES “YOU PEOPLE” so, maybe you should slow down on PROUDLY declaring the SUPERIORITY of OWNING a SYSTEM and learn from this experience and the errors of the past.
     
    #68 Benjamin, Jun 11, 2011
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Not if one understands the English language, Rippon.

    You are a man of the Bible.

    Calvin is one of the greatest men of the Bible of all time.

    It is totally unnecessary to say "expositors of the Bible".

    No more than an avid student of science must be called an expositor of science.

    It is perfectly accurate to say of such a student- he is a man of science.

    It is that simple.

    The deficiency is not in me on this- it is with those who are critiquing the statement.
     
    #69 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Listen, Ben. You thought the phrase "..man of the Bible..." was a gaff because you did not recognize that it in its clear and proper context it refers to a student of the Bible just as "man of science" refers to a student of science.

    And I have no idea what all this nonsense about Catholics and popes means nor how it is applicable to anything we've been talking about.
     
    #70 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    What is this responding to, James.

    I don't know of anyone who has made such a wild accusation. Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?
     
    #71 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  12. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    FYI, I addressed the values you place on adhering to the doctrine of a man and a system. The reference to Catholic theologies addressed an agreement with you (about pride in following a systemized theology) post #42. I wish “you people” would read the tread and think before spouting off. Sheesh!
     
    #72 Benjamin, Jun 11, 2011
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I'm sure you have a point here, Ben-(not sarcastically- I'm serious)- but I jsut don't see it.

    I do not desire to go back and reread the whole thread either.

    I am not the bad guy you think I am, Ben.

    [insult deleted]
     
    #73 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2011
  14. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    Actually for you to adjust my wording then call me silly is quite offensive. I stated one of the many reasons why I feel like I do. That was "John Calvin believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. That in itself is such a simple misunderstanding of scripture that I could not take him as a serious theologian."

    Leaving out what people state to make an inaccurate statement on what they did say is juvenile at best.

    The problem is those people tend to do that with the Scripture too and then folks believe them to be accurate and then start calling themselves "ists" behind the last name of the person misrepresenting the scripture.
     
    #74 John Toppass, Jun 11, 2011
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Rippon's right here John.

    No SERIOUS theologian would marginalize the theological contributions of John Calvin.

    Even the proponent of the OPPOSITE theological system spoke GLARING praise of the brilliance of Calvin as I point out in the OP.

    No educated person thinks he should not be taken seriously.

    I'll give you this challenge:

    Find somebody who is well educated here on BB, not in an IFB college (some are diploma mills- I'm sure some are good), who thinks Calvin was an idiot or to be taken lightly.
     
    #75 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  16. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Ok Luke. Though I see good debate to be about quality rather than quantity. Long to hear, slow to speak, you know. :thumbs:
     
    #76 Benjamin, Jun 11, 2011
  17. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    Why do you want me to find someone who think Calvin was an idiot? Are you still struggling with this? I merely stated fact. Then I stated this was one of the reasons that I can not believe something just because Calvin said it. Education does not equal intelligence. (Proven on this board daily)
     
    #77 John Toppass, Jun 11, 2011
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I think thinking people can put men's beliefs in context. They can understand why people far more brilliant than themselves could be bad off in a particular area in lieu of their age and the context in which they lived.

    In fact, this is exactly what a theological education enables many to do.

    I am attending Liberty and it is vehemently opposed to Calvinism- but even there they recognize the brilliance and awesome theological and political contributions of John Calvin.
     
    #78 Luke2427, Jun 11, 2011
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I straightened out some of your grammar. You took offense? Sorry about that. But you were not misrepresented in the least.

    Deal with my last two paragraphs. Take up Luke's challenge if you dare.
     
    #79 Rippon, Jun 11, 2011
  20. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    No that is not true! You deleted the whole jest of main reason I made the statement. It is what it is. You are forgiven before you ask.

    I try to deal with facts and no matter what others say for or against a fact, it is still a fact if it is the truth.
     
    #80 John Toppass, Jun 11, 2011
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